So heres my algebra:

t = training
sp = skill point (10 tokens)
b = bonus to training

2 training points 10 times (20 training points) gives 10t + 1sp
5 training points 4 times (20 training points) gives 8t + 8b

1sp = 2t + 8b

The only unknown variable that I see is b, the bonus to training, not taking into account breakthroughs.

Heres how my guys trained

start 20.11 (+2 equip) 47%, expected gain 36%
finish 20.11 (+2 equip) 93%, actual gain 46%
46% / 36% = 1.27, or a 27% bonus

start 45.76 47%, expected gain 14%
finish 45.76 65%, actual gain 18%
18% / 14% = 1.29, or a 29% bonus

start 50.00 (+4) 16%, expected gain 12%
finish 50.00 (+4) 32%, actual gain 16% (with brakthrough)
16 / 12 = 1.33, or a 33% bonus


start 39.71 52%, expected gain 17%
finish 39.71 85%, actual gain 33% (with brakthrough)
33% / 17%, or a 94% bonus


With this (minimal) data, conclusion is that the bonus is approximately 30% increase in expected gain, breakthrough is approximately 100% increase in expected for one stat)

assuming
b = 0.3t

1sp = 2t + 8b
1sp = 4.4t
100% = 4.4t, t = 22.7%


Therefore, assuming that breakthroughs are equally likely in intense or normal, if your expected increase is less than 22.7% (somewhere in the 30's I'd guess for an attribute), train on intense. If your expected increase is more than 22.7%, train on normal and save the tokens to 'buy' a point.

If anyone has more examples to donate to more accurately calculate the formula, or wants to pick holes in my maths feel free.

-Seano

If you train on normal, you can't 'buy a point' - you only get that functionality by trading four bonus points gained from Intense training.

Are you ignoring the training of the second attribute on intense, or am I just missing it?

Yeah, uh, the algebra is nice, but shouldn't the formulae be

20 training points on normal = 10t + 10x
20 training points on intense = 8t + 8b + 1sp

where x is either shopping tokens, morale, or (roughly) b/5 (haven't tested this fully, bonus I got the 1 time I tried it was 5% though, intense bonus averaged 29% over 14 tests)

train on intense. normal isn't worth it.

Use bonus tokens to bump attributes.

FYI for those algebraically challenged

Originally posted by Oren74
train on intense. normal isn't worth it.

Use bonus tokens to bump attributes.

FYI for those algebraically challenged

What are YOU talking about?

Almost all my players are training normal right now, if you're curious. There are a few cases that I'm training intense, but won't go into detail at the moment

I may write about the topic in a week or so once I get a better grip and understanding.

Originally posted by FairForever
Originally posted by Oren74

train on intense. normal isn't worth it.

Use bonus tokens to bump attributes.

FYI for those algebraically challenged

What are YOU talking about?

Almost all my players are training normal right now, if you're curious. There are a few cases that I'm training intense, but won't go into detail at the moment

I may write about the topic in a week or so once I get a better grip and understanding.


I'm hoping all teams in Oceania AA4Z think like you do FF. Train on Normal guys! So much better! o_O

Ok, you got 80 training points to spend. (2 per day over 40 days)

Option 1
16 Intense Trainings
16 Bonus Tokens
4 +1's skill points
4 select games during the season where you get a temp +5 bump to an attribute

Option 2
14 Intense Trainings
2 Regular Trainings (Go shopping twice)
14 Bonus Tokens
1 +1 to a piece of equipment
1 +1 to skill points
Buy a piece of equipment

Option 3
40 Normal Trainings
+Moral - Why? If you're losing, you're losing. Why waste this on a dead season?
+Small Bonus to training - Has anyone seen a difference?
Shopping - Equipment is weak compared to old stuff. Advancing the equipment just 1 pt seems pointless as you could just use the bonus tokens to increase an attribute by +2 and have two tokens left over.

Originally posted by Sao
Originally posted by FairForever

Originally posted by Oren74


train on intense. normal isn't worth it.

Use bonus tokens to bump attributes.

FYI for those algebraically challenged

What are YOU talking about?

Almost all my players are training normal right now, if you're curious. There are a few cases that I'm training intense, but won't go into detail at the moment

I may write about the topic in a week or so once I get a better grip and understanding.


I'm hoping all teams in Oceania AA4Z think like you do FF. Train on Normal guys! So much better! o_O

I ll do it for all my guys then!

The X factor is the normal secondary training "No Activity" which grants a small bonus to training.

If you spend 20 training points on intense you get an equal amount of statistical increases as 20 training points spent on normal, though you spread them out over two attributes with intense.

Intense generates 1 skill point increase to a stat of your choice if you turn in your 4 tokens for a skill point (1 skill point/20 training points = .05 skill points). The bonus from No Activity would have to generate .05 skill points per training token or .10 skill points per training bout (2 training points) to be equal to the 1 sp generated by intense after 4 bouts.

If the small secondary bonus is less than .10 skill points (SP) per bout, you are better off training intense. If the small secondary bonus is greater than .10 SP per bout, you are better off training normal. If the secondary bonus is equal to .10 SP per bout than it is a push and you should train whatever you want or choose the cheapest training.

Of course if normal or intense have shown a greater chance to have a breakthrough, that could skew the data to whichever has more breakthroughs.

Originally posted by Oren74
Ok, you got 80 training points to spend. (2 per day over 40 days)

Option 1
16 Intense Trainings
16 Bonus Tokens
4 +1's skill points
4 select games during the season where you get a temp +5 bump to an attribute

Option 2
14 Intense Trainings
2 Regular Trainings (Go shopping twice)
14 Bonus Tokens
1 +1 to a piece of equipment
1 +1 to skill points
Buy a piece of equipment

Option 3
40 Normal Trainings
+Moral - Why? If you're losing, you're losing. Why waste this on a dead season?
+Small Bonus to training - Has anyone seen a difference?
Shopping - Equipment is weak compared to old stuff. Advancing the equipment just 1 pt seems pointless as you could just use the bonus tokens to increase an attribute by +2 and have two tokens left over.


What your missing is the fact that the +1 SP gained from 4 Bonus Tokens, is just that and will not add +1 to an attribute that is soft capped. On the other hand adding +1 to a piece of Advanced Equipment with 10 Bonus Tokens will add +1 to any attribute no matter the level. So my point is it depends on the level of the attribute you want to increase.

Also for new players in the D-leagues who don't have much money to spend the normal training is cheaper (only slightly but still cheaper).

Originally posted by The Suthrner
Originally posted by Oren74

Ok, you got 80 training points to spend. (2 per day over 40 days)

Option 1
16 Intense Trainings
16 Bonus Tokens
4 +1's skill points
4 select games during the season where you get a temp +5 bump to an attribute

Option 2
14 Intense Trainings
2 Regular Trainings (Go shopping twice)
14 Bonus Tokens
1 +1 to a piece of equipment
1 +1 to skill points
Buy a piece of equipment

Option 3
40 Normal Trainings
+Moral - Why? If you're losing, you're losing. Why waste this on a dead season?
+Small Bonus to training - Has anyone seen a difference?
Shopping - Equipment is weak compared to old stuff. Advancing the equipment just 1 pt seems pointless as you could just use the bonus tokens to increase an attribute by +2 and have two tokens left over.


What your missing is the fact that the +1 SP gained from 4 Bonus Tokens, is just that and will not add +1 to an attribute that is soft capped. On the other hand adding +1 to a piece of Advanced Equipment with 10 Bonus Tokens will add +1 to any attribute no matter the level. So my point is it depends on the level of the attribute you want to increase.

Also for new players in the D-leagues who don't have much money to spend the normal training is cheaper (only slightly but still cheaper).

Still doesn't matter...

Originally posted by Oren74
Originally posted by The Suthrner

Originally posted by Oren74


Ok, you got 80 training points to spend. (2 per day over 40 days)

Option 1
16 Intense Trainings
16 Bonus Tokens
4 +1's skill points
4 select games during the season where you get a temp +5 bump to an attribute

Option 2
14 Intense Trainings
2 Regular Trainings (Go shopping twice)
14 Bonus Tokens
1 +1 to a piece of equipment
1 +1 to skill points
Buy a piece of equipment

Option 3
40 Normal Trainings
+Moral - Why? If you're losing, you're losing. Why waste this on a dead season?
+Small Bonus to training - Has anyone seen a difference?
Shopping - Equipment is weak compared to old stuff. Advancing the equipment just 1 pt seems pointless as you could just use the bonus tokens to increase an attribute by +2 and have two tokens left over.


What your missing is the fact that the +1 SP gained from 4 Bonus Tokens, is just that and will not add +1 to an attribute that is soft capped. On the other hand adding +1 to a piece of Advanced Equipment with 10 Bonus Tokens will add +1 to any attribute no matter the level. So my point is it depends on the level of the attribute you want to increase.

Also for new players in the D-leagues who don't have much money to spend the normal training is cheaper (only slightly but still cheaper).

Still doesn't matter...


What doesn't matter? Are trying to say your always right no matter what?

All that matters is whether or not the No Activity bonus equals +1 skill points after 10 training sessions. That's it. Figure it out or QFT.

Originally posted by Mob-6
All that matters is whether or not the No Activity bonus equals +1 skill points after 10 training sessions. That's it. Figure it out or QFT.

That's not what we're debating at all. Besides no need for that tone.

Originally posted by Oren74

Shopping - Equipment is weak compared to old stuff. Advancing the equipment just 1 pt seems pointless as you could just use the bonus tokens to increase an attribute by +2 and have two tokens left over.

Depending on the build the agent is trying to achieve there are two ways of spending bonus Points. If owner what to increase a capped skill it may be better to upgrade a piece of Advanced Equipment. If the skill is below the the second cap it may be better to buy 2 SP with 8 BT and still have 2BT left over.