Warrior General Games

Kickers are not as strong as Quarterbacks, who in turn are not as strong as linemen. Some players have excellent field-wide awareness, and others can only pick things out in front of them.

It's been acknowledged that the current attribute system is fairly inadequate, and many have suggested re-doing it which would yield a complete re-spec of characters. That is not a desirable situation since it comes at the expense of five seasons' worth of character establishment. I believe that we do need to make more specific attributes, but adding new ones and changing old ones is far too drastic of a measure.

I recommend an update within the current parameters of the system that each attribute/skill have a bimodal component of two extremes of that particular skill, such as the example in the thread's title. This is in a very tentative stage of development since I just thought of it while driving home, but it's the idea that counts.

List of Possible Distributions:
Strength: Arm vs. Leg or Upper vs. Lower
Speed: Acceleration vs. Top Speed
Agility: Balance vs. Evasion
Jumping: Vertical vs. Horizontal
Stamina: Endurance vs. Injury or Play-by-play vs. Game-long
Vision: Individual vs. Field or Knowledge vs. Reaction
Confidence: Self vs. Team
Blocking: Finesse vs. Power or Run vs. Pass
Tackling: Finesse vs. Power or Wrap-up vs. Dive
Throwing: Accuracy vs. Power
Catching: Possession vs. Yards-after-catch
Carrying: Secure vs. Quick
Kicking: FGs vs. Kickoffs or Accuracy vs. Power
Punting: Accuracy vs. Power

Each attribute would have a bar underneath it showing the allotment of the attribute, e.g. a QB would have 80% arm/20% leg strength or a WR would have 60% acceleration/40% top speed. A bar set at 50/50 could keep the current attribute checks as they are; for example, linemen and backs would want to keep strength close to 50/50.

These could be set at time of character creation and modified a small amount (2%? 10%?) at each level if so desired.

Many of these subtleties are already addressed by player tactics and Special Abilities, but I believe that this gives Bort a greater range of options to choose from when the sim has to calculate one check vs. another to determine an outcome. It also enhances the multiplier effects already enacted by the above.

[EDIT 1: change percentage at each level]

For Vision, maybe: "Play Recognition vs. Reaction" would be more clear.

Pretty neat idea.

Yes, great idea.

Gives agents more to do, with greater customization of their player. Allows for greater diversity of player builds, and should also increase the realistic nature of those builds (i.e.: a punter with 80 STR not able to pancake DL). I just posted a thread similar towards this end.

Looks awesome

lol, and this a day after the OP said i was wrong to seek deeper player attributes that avoid shared attributes that cause such mayhem with player builds and is the cause of nerfings. That it was an "overhaul" and not an "evolution" of the game.

Originally posted by GG
words

Yeah I know you agree with it... you've been saying this forever

I disagreed because you wanted a re-spec and a re-doing of player attributes. You had a ton of great ideas off of which I built, but when you recommend re-specs and completely changing the system, I was turned-off. The second paragraph of the OP is pretty much clearly directed at a lot of the things you said last night. Key words which stand in stark contrast are "within the current parameters."

I played this game in the Big XII; I know how players are built. I know how I was built. I want deeper attributes, but I do not want this game's fundamentals to be re-done. Do you feel as though this would grant that added character depth without an egregious alteration to characters' builds?

Before you start, I am not spending 9 hours and 14 minutes with you tonight, nor do I seek to antagonize you.

I dont seek to antagonize others either. People jsut love to hate me. Or to initiate personal remarks, which i cant help but respond to at times.

As for your suggestion, or any suggestion related to advancing player attributes, im all for it.

But to focus on your idea....having a bar underneath that you can slide is a good way around the negative of adding new attributes or significantly altering the goal posts.

Are the sliders a once-off? Or can people move them around as they please from game to game? It would have to be the latter, as when someone newly levels up and adds 5 pts to their strength, then they would have to again assign that either arm/leg strength.

Some of the attributes you list could do with a tweak, like throwing....power vs accuracy, that would already be a component of vision and strength. With a QB's strength bar, he would already be moving the bar across to full max arm strength (for pocket passers), so the power vs accuracy bar is a bit redundant there.

I'll make some suggestions, but others can jump in, on if there are any tweaks to the bar factors.

I like the idea. It doesn't change the game drastically, while at the same time it does.

Really, its more like very, very advanced options.

Like some of the people have been saying, how would the sliders work? How could you change them? One time would be kinda hard.

I think being able to tweak them constantly, or perhaps use a training point to be able to tweak something 10% (and everything started 50/50, so if your a kicker, it will take you 3 days to get your bar 100/0 on leg strength).

The sliders could only go up by increments of 10's, perhaps. That way the 10% thing works.

That would be interesting.

Needs tweaked and cleaned up a bit, but me likeys it

Every time you lvl up, you choose how the %, including auto-points, gets applied.

Requires planning to maximize, but allows changes if you want.

I would suggest the following...

Also, some of them may not need to be split up, like stamina, or confidence, or vision. They are what they are. However, sliders for all would be good to have purely because it adds another layer of strategy.


List of Possible Distributions:

Strength: Arm vs. Leg

Speed: Acceleration vs. Top Speed

Agility: Upper Body vs. Lower Body

Jumping: Vertical vs. Horizontal

Stamina: Endurance vs. Aerobic

Vision: Knowledge vs. Reaction

Confidence: Dexterity vs. Bravado

Blocking: Finesse vs. Power
Blocking: Run vs. Pass
Blocking: Break Blocking vs. Effect Blocking

Tackling: Wrap-Up vs. Power

Throwing: Pocket vs. Outside Pocket
Throwing: Quick Release vs. Wind Up

Catching: Jump Ball vs. In Stride

Carrying: Power vs. Evasive
Carrying: One-Cut vs. East-West

Kicking: ??? vs. ???

Punting: Coffin Corner vs. Hang-Time

I think I love you.

Originally posted by dmfa41, from OP
These could be set at time of character creation and modified a small amount (2%?) at each level if so desired.

I think that, when implemented in the game and at character creation, the agent would set the value. Each level, you would change it slightly, but not drastically at any given time; I suggested 2% in the OP as a low-ball estimate. Perhaps 10% of whatever the favored attribute is (e.g. be able to go from 80-20 to 72-28, 60-40 to 66-34) would be ideal.

GG, those are good ideas for each individual attribute. There are a whole lot of attribute sub-types that we could come up with.