Warrior General Games

There were 2 threads in the bugs section talking about the Squared off movement of the DE's in some, not all situations. Both threads were locked with the final answer being.....

http://goallineblitz.com/game/forum_thread.pl?thread_id=3429751&page=1

Originally posted by Bort
The "square" DE route is part of the elusive style implementation. They'll try and go around the line and then head inward. Stupidly high speed probably makes it look more odd, however. Bull rush will likely work better for these guys, assuming that's what they want, as it heads for the QB at the quickest route.

So we had a scrim tonight and I set my DE on Bull Rush to see how it went. Pretty pathetic imo.

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=882012&pbp_id=10779316 - Stuck

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=882012&pbp_id=10781397 - Nadda

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=882012&pbp_id=10782400 - WTF? Just run into him and die.

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=882012&pbp_id=10782610 - No upfield rush

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=882012&pbp_id=10782646 - Didnt even move off the LOS

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=882012&pbp_id=10783437 - Didnt even move off the LOS

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=882012&pbp_id=10783542 - Didnt even move off the LOS

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=882012&pbp_id=10783744

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=882012&pbp_id=10783778

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=882012&pbp_id=10784296

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=882012&pbp_id=10786052

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=882012&pbp_id=10786146

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=882012&pbp_id=10786212 - Only time he gets remotely close to the QB and its after he has thrown the ball.

As you can see, it was a huge failure.

So, here we are left with either being a knot on a log, or running up field cutting angles in the grass. I suggest there be a setting in between the two. I dont understand why a DE cant just rush wherever is needed to try to beat the OT. His options now are to run way upfield and cut an angle....or run right into the OT and stand there.

There has to be a better answer than this.

Have the DE check every tick on Elusive to see if he is by the OT as opposed to running 5-8 yards up the field before he checks now.

Perhaps replace combo with a legit pass rushing option? Somewhere in the middle of power/elusive of course.

Originally posted by Mat McBriar
Perhaps replace combo with a legit pass rushing option? Somewhere in the middle of power/elusive of course.

Good place for a slider, perhaps? Instead of an either/or.

Slider may work....it has for some other issues. I just cant fathom that these are the only two options for a DE. I would like to know how many ticks those DEs are going upfield before they turn in a 90 degree angle towards the QB. I am not tick savvy enough to know or measure it.

Originally posted by dancingd
Good place for a slider, perhaps? Instead of an either/or.

I always get the feeling sliders are easier said than done, but I do like them. The slider could just elusive/combo/power "chance". Obviously the combo style would be what Modok is referencing/wanting and would need to be implemented. Essentially if you were on all the way elusive (+100) you'd have a 100% chance of the elusive style of pass rush, 0% combo style. +99 would be a 99% elusive, 1% combo and so forth. Obviously the dividing split would be at 0, where it's just a 100% chance of combo.

True downside would be you'd never have your elusive rusher bull rushing the OT, he'd be constrained to the elusive and combo styles.

I think the whole idea of "combo" should be thrown out the window.

Originally posted by Modok
I think the whole idea of "combo" should be thrown out the window.

Well based on my understanding, combo is just a random selection of elusive/power. We need the balanced style in between, or w/e you want to call it.

Also let me add that the whole aggressive slider has been a fail for DEs. Screens should be based on a vision check regardless of how aggressive you are rushing the passer.

For quick reference, this is the DE this was all tested with.

M.C. Ren (Lv. 59 DE)
Ht/Wt: 6'3", 267lbs

Experience, Skill Points, and Cash
Money: $75931
Daily Salary: $8500
Skill Points: 0
Training Points: 4
Bonus Tokens: 0
Veteran Points: 1
Next Level: 853/1000

Attributes
Physical Attributes
Strength: 69.09
Speed: 93.09 (+15)
Agility: 101.09 (+23)
Jumping: 41.54
Stamina: 46.07
Vision: 61.92
Confidence: 48.92

Football Skills
Blocking: 17.92
Catching: 8
Tackling: 58.09
Throwing: 8
Carrying: 10
Kicking: 8
Punting: 8

Special Abilities
Containment Abilities
Swat Ball: 1
Wall: 0
Strong Base: 0
Diving Tackle: 0
Monster Hit: 0

Pass Rusher Abilities
First Step: 10
Change Direction: 9
Shed Blocks: 10
Tunnel Vision: 10
Big Sack: 1

Veteran Abilities
Clutch: 15
Jump the Snap: 15
Pass Rusher: 15

Wouldn't the DEs in a 4-3 normally play outside the tackles?

Originally posted by Modok
For quick reference, this is the DE this was all tested with.


Should of been a pathetic bull rusher, working as intended in that aspect.

Originally posted by Mat McBriar
Should of been a pathetic bull rusher, working as intended in that aspect.

Bull rush will likely work better for these guys

My DE has similar issues so when all his VA's and SA's fire he probably is screwed because he'll run too far away from the play and when he realized it the OT has a chance to recover and block him instead of the wide open rush to the QB that could have happened.

Last season it was actually better for my DE to get blocked at the line than it was to beat the OT clean because beating the OT clean took him too far downfield while getting blocked gave him a chance to shed the block and then take a angled line towards the QB.

It seems to me there needs to be a vision check at some point for the DE to see if he is behind the OT and start angling towards the QB. What we have now is the DE putting his hands over his eyes and running in a straight line and then once he's a few yards down field looking around.

I don't even think a slider would help since DE's only rush in 2 patterns right now. There isn't an in-between pattern that can be selected. Basically Modok's DE has 2 choices, either run into the OT and do nothing or run into the middle of nowhere and hope the play takes long enough to develop that he can run back into it. There needs to be an improvements on the evasive modeling, no need for a new creation, IMO.

Originally posted by bowlingfreak73
My DE has similar issues so when all his VA's and SA's fire he probably is screwed because he'll run too far away from the play and when he realized it the OT has a chance to recover and block him instead of the wide open rush to the QB that could have happened.

Last season it was actually better for my DE to get blocked at the line than it was to beat the OT clean because beating the OT clean took him too far downfield while getting blocked gave him a chance to shed the block and then take a angled line towards the QB.

It seems to me there needs to be a vision check at some point for the DE to see if he is behind the OT and start angling towards the QB. What we have now is the DE putting his hands over his eyes and running in a straight line and then once he's a few yards down field looking around.

I don't even think a slider would help since DE's only rush in 2 patterns right now. There isn't an in-between pattern that can be selected. Basically Modok's DE has 2 choices, either run into the OT and do nothing or run into the middle of nowhere and hope the play takes long enough to develop that he can run back into it. There needs to be an improvements on the evasive modeling, no need for a new creation, IMO.

Agreed...they need to check every tick imo.