Warrior General Games

With a lot of the talk about PeeWee finances, and how PeeWee owners/players have to pay more for the game, this suggestion actually came from Catch.

The big problem with the finances lies in CEQ. The problem is that PW players end up paying more b/c they have to buy CEQ for all of their players each year. If you build a long-term player, this cost essentially gets spread out over many seasons.

So the suggestion would be to allow low level players to buy special CEQ. This CEQ would function in the same way, but it would cost less (catch suggested 150 flex. I'd recommend 20 flex per skill point (6*20=120), plus 30 for the SA tree. So for full CEQ each player spends 150 flex.

The twist would be this CEQ is non-refundable and disappears after one season.

So instead of spending 900 flex for 1 season and then getting refunded 630, (resulting in a cost of 270 flex), a PeeWee player would only pay an up-front non-refundable 150 flex.

And before people say this is not fair, think of it this way. A PeeWee player would pay 150/flex for 1 season of CEQ. If you currently spend your 900 flex for a CEQ and that player wears it for 10 seasons until he retires, you would only spend 27 flex per season. It's still disproportionate and you're still getting a better deal.

I'd also like to recommend that this be only an OPTION. If an agent would like his or her long-term player to still get to enjoy PeeWee, then they can still buy the old regular CEQ and keep until this player retires.

*So this would really only affect players who only exist for just 1 season.
*This would make the CEQ a little more fair since it's currently the same cost to have it for 1 season or for 10+ seasons.
*This would also likely help BORT in the long-run because I think a lot MORE people would buy CEQ in PeeWee's. The problem largely isn't the flex they lose, it's having to fork over 900 flex per player per season and then get 630 of it refunded. So if they're only forking over 150 up-front (or 120 up front and 30 later), more people will likely buy it and BORT won't lose as much money as people say he would.
*I also realize my suggestion of 120 & 30 is not the same proportion as the current 600 & 300. But keep in mind that PeeWee players only get to use the SA tree for about 1/3 of the season. Plus some people question how great the SA's work at that level. So making the SP aspect cost more, it helps BORT out b/c more people will buy that than the SA's.

Using that logic why should we have to pay any more than 27 flex per season?

Originally posted by EatDaBeaver
Using that logic why should we have to pay any more than 27 flex per season?

using your logic why are birds allowed to fly and bears arent?

Originally posted by EatDaBeaver
Using that logic why should we have to pay any more than 27 flex per season?

its posts like this that will prohibit any progress ever being made. Its a good idea that is rational, and not creating a huge dropoff in Bort's bottom line.

+1 to Ping

Originally posted by amace
using your logic why are birds allowed to fly and bears arent?

So your saying me seeking for the custom equipment to apply fairly to each league is somehow irrational?

Originally posted by MGeezy2186
its posts like this that will prohibit any progress ever being made. Its a good idea that is rational, and not creating a huge dropoff in Bort's bottom line.

+1 to Ping

Same goes to you, its not irrational to think we should be treated fairly.

Other players get to keep there custom EQ,we have to constantly buy it over and over, its unfair, and simply reducing the price a bit would be nice, but it would be a heck of a lot nicer to see an actually fair system, that doesn't include an update JUST for peewee, as it is likely NGTH.

Makes a lot of sense.
To not tie up flex allows for agents to spend it more freely. which should make both merchant and consumer happier.

Originally posted by EatDaBeaver
Originally posted by amace

using your logic why are birds allowed to fly and bears arent?

So your saying me seeking for the custom equipment to apply fairly to each league is somehow irrational?



Pretty much, Peewee's pay far too much as it is.

Look at it this way,

for a QB:
You pay to make: 300 + (300*3) + 900 = 2100
retire, you get (300*3 + 900)*.7 + 300 = 1560 back.
cost per season per dot = 2100 - 1560 = 540 flex

If you use this proposed method,
you spend 300 + 300*3 + 150 = 1350 flex,
you get 300 + (300*3)*.7 = 930 back, reduces the cost per season to 420 flex. (120 flex savings)

for a 200 flex position, normally
you pay 200 + (200*3) + 900 = 1700 flex,
you get 200 + (200*3 + 900)*.7 = 1250 flex back,
cost is 450 per season
this new method
cost you, 200 + (200*3) + 150 = 950
you get 200 + (200*3)*.7 = 620 back,
total cost to you per dot per season is 330 (Savings of 120 flex)

and similar for 100

Now, build a QB, boost him for 10 seasons, buy him CEQ, thats 10200 flex spent. retire, you get 7230 flex back. thats spending 2970 flex for a 10 season career. However, when you average it out you are spending 297 flex per season to have a QB for 10 seasons as opposed to spending 540 flex to have him for one season. So yes, I think something needs to change.
Originally posted by


Same goes to you, its not irrational to think we should be treated fairly.

Other players get to keep there custom EQ,we have to constantly buy it over and over, its unfair, and simply reducing the price a bit would be nice, but it would be a heck of a lot nicer to see an actually fair system, that doesn't include an update JUST for peewee, as it is likely NGTH.

did you bother reading the post, or just hit the reply button as soon as you saw a word you didn't like?

the OP said it wouldn't be mandatory. If you want to keep your player longer, you can buy regular CEQ for 900 flex. If you just want a peewee player, they why shouldn't they get a bit of a break?

Originally posted by Dtownokie
Makes a lot of sense.
To not tie up flex allows for agents to spend it more freely. which should make both merchant and consumer happier.

exactly.

Question, if you had a peewee player, or hell, a whole team of peewee players.

would you a) spend 900 flex per player per season (You'd need to buy a massive amount of flex to cover it). Even if you get it back, you need tens of thousands of flex to cover the whole thing.

Or

would you b) spend 150 non-refundable flex per player. You don't get it back, but you don't need to buy such large quantities of flex to cover.

It will be cheaper for the players in the short run, but they'll likely spend more in the long run, which in the end, is what Bort wants.

I'd be willing to bet that at 150 flex for CE, you'd have a hell of alot more purchases.

I agree it's still not fair, but I think this would be a great step in the right direction, would help PeeWee owners/agents, and it wouldn't kill Bort's cash cow. Plus it has no bearing on the long-term builds because they still have their option for CEQ and can play in PW with it.

So you're correct, it's still not equal, but I think it's a great start.

Originally posted by PING72
I agree it's still not fair, but I think this would be a great step in the right direction, would help PeeWee owners/agents, and it wouldn't kill Bort's cash cow. Plus it has no bearing on the long-term builds because they still have their option for CEQ and can play in PW with it.

So you're correct, it's still not equal, but I think it's a great start.

what do you want for equal?

I showed you the math. a peewee QB, if he boosts x3 and buys CEQ will spend 540 flex in the current peewee season per season

a regular QB if he boosts 3 times for 10 seasons and buys CEQ will only spend 270 flex per season.

how is that fair?

all this idea does is decrease a) the cost per season and b) the amount of flex a person needs to carry just to afford a player. at only 540 flex per season, thats alright, but you have to put down 2400 flex to start off with just to play, then you get a bunch back at the end. that number can be easilly reduced to about 1650, it would increase the number of players built.

Its simple economics. As price decreases, demand increases.

in laymans terms, if they can spend less money, they'll by more of them.

for example, I will never make peewee players unless there's a more affordable way to do it.

I'm not spending hundreds of dollars on this game just so I can cover building, boosting and buying EQ for peewee players.

Originally posted by amace
what do you want for equal?


I don't quite follow. You seemed to support the idea, and now you don't think it's strong enough? I saw your math, I know it's still not equal. I'm just saying my idea is better than what we currently have, so I think this is a great CEQ suggestion. I really don't think BORT would give much more than this.

Now if people want to continue to work for equity, then I think after CEQ perhaps suggestions could be supported for further steps. For now, I'm just focusing on helping this idea.

Also something to add is if you create your whole 55 CE and Boost players you spend around 400 or so dollars and end up losing over $100 each season. So pretty much every 2 months us Pee Wee hardcore players lose over $100.

Originally posted by PING72
Originally posted by amace

what do you want for equal?


I don't quite follow. You seemed to support the idea, and now you don't think it's strong enough? I saw your math, I know it's still not equal. I'm just saying my idea is better than what we currently have, so I think this is a great CEQ suggestion. I really don't think BORT would give much more than this.

Now if people want to continue to work for equity, then I think after CEQ perhaps suggestions could be supported for further steps. For now, I'm just focusing on helping this idea.



I think we mis-understand each other.

Its not equal, but EatDaBeaver is complaining that peewee players get this relief when regular players don't, when the fact is that peewee players pay twice per season what regular players do. Regular players shoudl get no help, but peewee players certainly need something.

I've done recruiting for peewee before, its a nightmare if you don't have a big network of people, and even then most people are reluctant to buy CEQ AND boost.

Originally posted by The Greatest DTD
Also something to add is if you create your whole 55 CE and Boost players you spend around 400 or so dollars and end up losing over $100 each season. So pretty much every 2 months us Pee Wee hardcore players lose over $100.

well if you go by

9 x 300 flex players at 540 each = 4860, but 2100 flex each for startup costs = 18900
14 x 100 flex players at 360 each = 5040, but 1300 flex each for startup cost = 18200
32 x 200 flex players 450 each = 14400, but 1700 flex each for startup cost = 54400

in total, you spend roughly 24,300 in non-refundable flex in the current system
and you needed 91,500 flex to cover creation, boosting and CEQ, thats more than a couple hundred dollars, to get 91,000 flex, you need the MVP package, which costs $500

with this new system, it would be

9 at 420 = 3780, 1350 startup = 12,150
14 at 240 = 3360, 550 startup = 7700
32 at 330 = 10560, 950 startup = 30400

total spent on non-refundable flex is: 17,700
total flex needed to field a team is 50,250, which only costs $275 to start up.

Take into account how many more people would be willing to buy, boost and equip peewee players, Bort will more than make back what he loses per dot.

Lol, your accusing me of not supporting the suggestion I nearly got banned for promoting....

lol....


Seriously? why don't you read over something before trying to assault it, I clearly stated that, using his logic, why should we have to pay still, so much more, as pee-wee players than the other leagues.

It doesn't make any sense to "promote" an idea that doesn't nearly fix the problem, I'd rather find a solution that isn't pee-wee specific (meaning they aren't making the adjustment just for pee-wee leagues, as these changes wont likely occur). And also to completely even the field for the pee-wee players, as they should be at no disadvantage.

I think the obvious answer is simply this, instead of having an "option" to keep a piece for just one season, have CE expire after each season for all of the other leagues the same way it does for peewee.

If they then choose to reduce the price of the CE to be more reasonable for it only lasting one season, then that is their decision.

Its not a good idea to propose a change in price, rather lets suggest that ALL CE expire after a single season, and that you must re-purchase it each season.

Seeing as pee-wee players have played with this being the case for some time now, it makes little sense not to charge the other players the same prices. Essentially, I'd rather see this result in a raise in price in the other leagues than it all get muddied down into the Pee-Wee leagues crying about the price of the game.