Warrior General Games

I've made one Suggestion and supported another Suggestion recently about having a human (or humans) come in after the sort-script is done and do some idiot-checking.

However, given that Bort and Catch seem to prefer having a computer do this job alone with a minimum of human input, I have an alternative Suggestion: tweak the sort script so that it stops taking teams from the bottom rung in an age group and promoting them straight up to Elite #1.

To show why this needs to be changed, here's some examples from my own league, National Minor Elite #1 ( http://goallineblitz.com/game/league.pl?league_id=37 ) of some teams that the script chose to promote straight up from Normal #4 to Elite #1, as well as counter-examples of teams the script could've put into Elite #1 instead but chose to overlook.

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Example 1 - Confederates Jerk - http://goallineblitz.com/game/team.pl?team_id=304
Reached the playoffs in Regular #4 last season, got to the 2nd round of the playoffs, and lost there 104-10. The sort script promoted them straight up to Elite #1, where they are clearly outmatched and just lost their first scrimmage 170-0.

To make room for them, the sort script demoted a team out of Elite #1, the Black Hand Assassins ( http://goallineblitz.com/game/team.pl?team_id=172 ), who went 14-2 in Elite #1 and reached the playoffs as a 3-seed. They did get upset in the 1st round by a 6-seed, but only by 5 points. They clearly belong in Elite #1 far more than Confederates Jerk.

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Example 2 - Malicious Bengals - http://goallineblitz.com/game/team.pl?team_id=294
Reached the playoffs in Regular #4 last season, where they lost in the 1st round 44-3. The sort script promoted them straight up to Elite #1, where they are clearly outmatched and just lost their first scrimmage 251-0. They also lost their second scrimmage 37-0 to Confederates Jerk, the team listed above as Example 1.

Wouldn't the Liechtenstein Lycans ( http://goallineblitz.com/game/team.pl?team_id=4370 ) have been a better fit? They went all the way in Competitive #3 last season, winning the title game 71-7, but only went up one step into Elite #2.

Why does the sort script think that losing by 41 in the first round of the playoffs in league #4 is worth getting promoted up 3 levels, but winning the championship game by 64 points in league #3 is only worth getting promoted up 1 level? How does this make sense?

Answer: it doesn't.

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Example 3 - Winnipeg Jets - http://goallineblitz.com/game/team.pl?team_id=147
Reached the playoffs in Regular #4 last season, where they lost in the 1st round 41-3. The sort script promoted them straight up to Elite #1, where they just lost their first two scrimmages 231-0 and 161-0.

To make room for them, the sort script demoted another team out of Elite #1, the Lone Star Leopards ( http://goallineblitz.com/game/team.pl?team_id=1373 ) who went 7-9 in Elite #1 last year and just missed the playoffs. True, Lone Star didn't exactly wow anyone with their performance last year. But given the choice between keeping Lone Star in Elite #1 or skipping Winnipeg straight up into Elite #1 after a 38-point 1st-round playoff loss in Regular #4... which team do you think belongs in Elite #1 more?

I guarantee you, Lone Star wouldn't be losing their scrimmages by scores like 231-0 right now.

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If Bort and Catch are going to continue to rely solely on an automated script to assign teams to leagues, they need to change how that script works.

Any script that decides that a 41-point 1st-round playoff loss in League #4 is more impressive than a 64-point championship-game win in League #3 is just broken, plain and simple.

Any script that decides that a 94-point 2nd-round playoff loss in League #4 is more impressive than a 5-point 1st-round playoff loss in League #1 is just broken, plain and simple.

Fix the sort script. If you do nothing else, at least do this.

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(EDIT: updated as of 7/22 at 3:00pm Eastern Time)

I've done an analysis of the National Semi Pro, National Minor, Regional Minor and Local Minor leagues, and identified all of the teams that were in the Bottom tier last season that were promoted straight up to Elite #1 or Elite #2 this season -- 40 such teams total.

And how are these 40 teams doing after being promoted straight up from Bottom to Elite?

- Combined record: 47-228 (.171 winning percentage out of 275 games total).
- 150 of those 275 games -- over half -- resulted in triple-digit losses.
- Only 5 teams -- one-eighth -- have a winning record.
- 31 teams -- over three-fourths -- have lost at least one game by triple-digits.
- 29 teams -- almost three-fourths -- have either 0 wins or just 1 win.
- 11 teams have lost all of their games by triple-digits.

Can anyone please explain why these teams weren't promoted to Competitive instead of being pushed all the way up into Elite? Is a Bottom-promotee that currently has 7 triple-digit losses really a better fit in Elite than, say, a team that finished #10 in the Elite standings last season and got demoted to Competitive to make room for that Bottom-promotee?

+1

The way to get better is to play better teams. Nothing will be fixed if teams keep playing poor competition.

agree but being in ELite last season and was gonna promote to National Minors there is a problem

you CANT miss the playoffs and stay in elite, it is why the system was drawn up in the first place.

The only problem is that there are simply not enough "good" teams to promote INTO elite and they are worse than the teams who get demoted.

The only way to solve this IMO would be to stay in competitive until you AT LEAST go to a CC (round 3). And stay in regular until you make round 2 in regular.

The only problem is how the lower leagues (Rookie-Prep) sort their teams before they go into elite starting with University

Originally posted by Dr. E
The way to get better is to play better teams. Nothing will be fixed if teams keep playing poor competition.

in one example one team in ENTIRELY CPU

+1,000,000

Just a horrible setup GLB has right now.

Originally posted by Dr. Showtime
you CANT miss the playoffs and stay in elite, it is why the system was drawn up in the first place.

Incorrect.

The Austin Slackers ( http://goallineblitz.com/game/team.pl?team_id=1317 ) and the Little Rock Hogs ( http://goallineblitz.com/game/team.pl?team_id=289 ) both missed the playoffs in Elite #1 last season. They're both still in Elite #1 this season.

In addition, War Machine ( http://goallineblitz.com/game/team.pl?team_id=5604 ) missed the playoffs in Elite #2 last season, and got promoted UP into Elite #1.

The sort-script has no problem with keeping or even promoting teams that missed the playoffs. Neither do I... sometimes, they're still a better option than a lower team.

Originally posted by Dr. E
The way to get better is to play better teams. Nothing will be fixed if teams keep playing poor competition.

Fine. When a team in Normal #4 gets to the second round of the playoffs and loses by 94 points, promote them -- to Competitive #3. You don't take a team like that and promote them all the way up to Elite #1, not when better options exist.

The sort-script thinks otherwise. And the sort-script is wrong.

Originally posted by Novus
Originally posted by Dr. Showtime

you CANT miss the playoffs and stay in elite, it is why the system was drawn up in the first place.

Incorrect.

The Austin Slackers ( http://goallineblitz.com/game/team.pl?team_id=1317 ) and the Little Rock Hogs ( http://goallineblitz.com/game/team.pl?team_id=289 ) both missed the playoffs in Elite #1 last season. They're both still in Elite #1 this season.

In addition, War Machine ( http://goallineblitz.com/game/team.pl?team_id=5604 ) missed the playoffs in Elite #2 last season, and got promoted UP into Elite #1.

The sort-script has no problem with keeping or even promoting teams that missed the playoffs. Neither do I... sometimes, they're still a better option than a lower team.

There were a number of teams who made playoffs that DIDNT promote either because the owner sold, or because they dropped down (like my team). In that situation it would go to the 9 seeded team to stay. It's the same for WL too. It goes 9 seed from the conference of the team thats leaving and then most overall wins in the league.

Edit: Also War MAchine going into E1 is irrelevant since that is the only Elite league in the NAtional minors. One conference is the former E2 and the other is the same E1 teams

There should only be 1 Elite at any level there anything else should be Competitive or plain!

Originally posted by Dr. Showtime
There were a number of teams who made playoffs that DIDNT promote either because the owner sold, or because they dropped down (like my team). In that situation it would go to the 9 seeded team to stay. It's the same for WL too. It goes 9 seed from the conference of the team thats leaving and then most overall wins in the league.

I'm not sure what we're arguing about here... we both seem to agree there's nothing wrong with that.

There IS, however, something wrong with the sort script looking at these two teams and coming to these two conclusions:
- Team A - lost in the 1st-round in League #1 by 5 points = demote 1 level down
- Team B - lost in the 2nd round in League #4 by 94 points = promote 3 levels up to replace Team A

There is also something wrong with the sort script looking at these two teams and coming to these two conclusions:
- Team A - won the championship game in League #3 by 64 points - promote 1 level up
- Team B - lost in the 1st-round in League #4 by 41 points - promote 3 levels up and skip past Team A

I notice you're not defending those two decisions the script made.

Yeah its definitely messed up but it isn't BROKEN.

What is broken is that the COMPETITIVE leagues aren't really COMPETITIVE so there is no way to gauge their true talent.

Originally posted by Novus

There IS, however, something wrong with the sort script looking at these two teams and coming to these two conclusions:
- Team A - lost in the 1st-round in League #1 by 5 points = demote 1 level down
- Team B - lost in the 2nd round in League #4 by 94 points = promote 3 levels up to replace Team A


If the teams in COMPETITIVE were actually that, then it wouldn't matter because team A wouldn't be assured a 14-2 season at the least with 5 games within 100 points. And team B would actually be decent if they got to the 2nd round regardless.

It's not the system, its the lack of teams/good teams

Originally posted by Dr. Showtime
Yeah its definitely messed up but it isn't BROKEN.
Whether it's "broken" or just "messed up," that means it needs to be fixed. Again, not sure what we're arguing about here.

Originally posted by Dr. Showtime
It's not the system, its the lack of teams/good teams
One of the big reasons there's such a lack of good teams is because the game has so many areas of inconsistency and illogic that many people who would be good team owners have fled the game.

The illogic of a promotion system that thinks a 2nd-round playoff loss in a lower league is worth more than a championship game win in a higher league is just one example. Even if there were more good teams in GLB, that promotion system still wouldn't make sense.

It has always over promoted period. Needs adjusting.

Originally posted by Dr. Showtime
Edit: Also War MAchine going into E1 is irrelevant since that is the only Elite league in the NAtional minors. One conference is the former E2 and the other is the same E1 teams

Nope. For some reason beyond me National Minors has 2 "Elite" leagues and 1 Competitive.

http://goallineblitz.com/game/leagues.pl

+1 to the OP.