Therefore think about teams from AAA who promote up to pro-league in 1 or 2 or 3 or 4+ seasons AFTER the VP's have been incorporated. If they're not part of some second tier prestige XP then when these teams full of equal base level players enter pro-league, they'll only be destroyed more by equal base level players who have benefited from 5 seasons worth of prestige pts. Base-50-Prestige-20 players/teams destroying Base-50-Prestige-1 players/teams.

Originally posted by Ken1
it should be set up so that a Level 1 VPer gets about the same experience toward VP's as he would in exp if he played, say, 30 snaps each game at level 1.

Disagree. Again, it's just a round-about way of making vet players earn something similar to 600 XP every day. GLB's stance from season 1 has always been about allowing noob players to 'catch up' and it was always assured that it would happen very quickly. But after 4 seasons none of my players have ever overtaken each other based on their creation day and receiving the same amount of snaps per game. Only those who are benched more have fallen a level or two...and again, that's because GM's bench players who are a few levels under the starter. So if you have Prestige levels as well, then it adds more impetus for GM's to bench base-40-prestige-1 players in favor of base-40-prestige-10 players. Thereby creating even more inability for players to 'catch up'.

What Bort suggested is good, as it's the ONE xp system still in operation and just higher levels earn a little more per day. But it should only be a little more and not something akin to 600 XP per day. Like, if a level 29 player today earns 30 XP per game, then he should get 60 XP, say, so that when he levels up to level 30 he might get now 10 pts instead of 5. Where 5 of those pts go towards buffet-style prestige attributes. Something like that rather than a second tier of 600 XP per day dedicated towards a second tier of open prestige attributes.

Imo, rather than having a second tier of attributes and XP and levels...instead, incorporate the 'prestige' idea into a free-form buffet style aim towards specializing existing players.

Eg:-

You create a TE and make him fairly balanced but he's more of a receiver. By the time he hits say level 30, then it unlocks a buffet-style specialist attribute/SA area. Here, this player can now further develop and specialize his receiving TE. He will have say 5 or 10 attributes to choose from a collection of 50+. So that every player hitting level 30 can now tailor their player INDIVIDUALLY from others because pretty much no receiving TE will choose all the same 5 or 10 specialist attributes.

If the main aim of the original OP is to "just give vet players something more to do" then what I'm suggesting achieves that without creating a whole new realm of disparity. But actually would be more fun because it'd be about specializing your player.

Originally posted by OttawaShane
Originally posted by Ken1

Originally posted by Bort


I wonder if earning XP towards the VP's would be better done just with a daily amount added, perhaps modified by some training options. (instead of earning from games)? Just throwing it out there.

I like the basic idea, although it should be set up so that a Level 1 VPer gets about the same experience toward VP's as he would in exp if he played, say, 30 snaps each game at level 1.

I'd also like to see more VP's earned by players in higher level leagues than at lower levels, not taking it to Xiong's extreme of making it only useful in Pros, but making VP's go up considerably faster the higher the league as a non-coercive incentive to play in higher leagues if you can make it.

It could be as high as earning 50% more VP's in Pro as in BBB (with gradations along the way).



Here's the thing though - there are very limited number of roster spots in the pro leagues, and pretty soon the difference between most pro leagues and many AAA or even AA leagues will be miniscule at best. Looking into the future a bit, why treat two L35 players differently, just because one signed onto one of the handful of pro teams while the other is on a team in AAA where the entire league is at or near L35?

To try to encourage more parity within the leagues.

It's true there are A teams who could beat a number of non-gutted Pro teams. It's also something that shouldn't happen.

I strongly oppose any heavy-handed measures to force this, like hard level caps on already-existing leagues (or anything else that would force a player to leave a team he's on), or a massive reordering of teams. But I strongly support incentives to tend to make the Pro leagues the best, on down to the lowest teams the weakest, such as more VP's at the Pro level, with fewer as one goes down the levels.

Originally posted by drifter

EDITED ANNOUNCEMENT

This idea sparked an off topic debate/rant/extended whine by individuals who thought this would be a good place to complain about past ideas that had been rejected and air other assorted grievances they had with the game. Skip ahead to page 20 to pick up the discussion and brainstorming of additional ideas that fit under the original topic


We all know that there have been many, many comments about how higher level players are becoming bored with the game because of the slow down in levelling. This idea would add back the excitement of regular levelling and, as a bonus, would provide another way to differentiate between builds so that we don't look alike. This would not supercede by previous suggestion about Lockerroom attributes.

Basically, starting with Level 31 (approximately the mid-point of level gain of a 10 year career), players would have a 2nd type of experience and levels that would begin to accrue. We'll call them prestige levels.

These prestige levels would be figured separately from actual player levels and would accrue XP based on the usual XP chart BUT they would start at level 1 (at player level 31).

The player would continue to get his floor XP and gain regular player levels but would have a separately accrued Prestige XP towards their Prestige Level.

For example, a player hits level 31. He continues to get 25XP per day and 90 XP per game on his way to level 32 and so on. However, at the same time he is getting 100 Prestige XP per day and 600 Prestige XP per game towards Prestige Level 2 and so on. By the time the player hits Player Level 32, he'll probably be somwhere are Prestige Level 6 or 7. Boosting will continue to effect Player level but will have no effect on Prestige Level.

Each gain in prestige level will give the player Prestige Skill Points to assign to Prestige attributes. These attributes are as follows and are divided into two categories: Soft Cap Adjusters and Performance Boosters

Soft Cap Adjusters:

Gym Rat – Every 5 points raises the soft cap on Strength by 1. If the player has already spent points past the soft cap, it will raise their strength by that much. For example a player has a strength of 50 having spent 2 pts to raise strength from 49 to 50. A point in Stronger than average would raise the soft cap to 50 and raise this player’s actual strength to 51 for the points already spent.

Quick – As above with Agility

Track Star – As above with Speed

Laser Arm – As above with throwing

Technically Sound Blocker – As above with blocking

Textbook Tackler – As above with Tackling

Football Genius – As above with Vision

Marathoner – As above with Stamina

Cocky – As above with Confidence

High Jumper – As above with jumping

Strong Hands – As above with Catching

Soccer Star – As above with kicking and punting

Performance Boosters

Future Coach – Increases entire unit’s vision

Clutch – Increases performance in clutch situations (late in close game, OT)

Sure Tackler – Reduces the chance of a missed tackle when playing on balanced

Helmet on the ball – Increases the chance of a fumble when playing on balanced.

Hard to Beat – Less likely to get fooled by pump fakes and receiver moves

Slippery – Higher chance for a QB to break a tackle on a sack

GoTo Guy – Gives a boost to a receiver’s “open or not” read by the QB

Never Gives Up – Reduces the “downtime” by getting pancaked or beat by a move or a pump fake.

As I said, I believe this will add back in the excitement of regular levelling for higher level players AND will also provide a way for players to differentiate themselves even more from the standard cookie cutter builds.




kinda of takes the blatent money suck out of it... not sure this would fly. Probably better to have non-boosters gain 1 level per season with the boosters gaining 3 times as much by spending money. That deffinately keeps the cash rolling in.

The reason the OP idea doesnt discourage cookie-cutter builds, but actually promote it is....

Currently, base attributes are all open. People add to them what are the major and minor attributes. So in the end, everyone follows the one way.

If the prestige attributes are treated the same, where there's say 20 of them, then a bunch of them are going to be classified as being 'majors' and 'minors' that relate to your player's position. So in the end, everyone will just keep following the same way.

This is why imo the 'prestige' attributes/SAs must be treated like a choice of 5 out of 40 possible relevant skills for that player. Rather than 'majors' and 'minors'. Just each position on the field has like 40 prestige attributes created that are all uniquely 'major'. So it then becomes more of a specializing process when you have to choose 5 out of those 40 position-specific attributes.

Originally posted by TJ Spikes
Originally posted by drifter


EDITED ANNOUNCEMENT

This idea sparked an off topic debate/rant/extended whine by individuals who thought this would be a good place to complain about past ideas that had been rejected and air other assorted grievances they had with the game. Skip ahead to page 20 to pick up the discussion and brainstorming of additional ideas that fit under the original topic


We all know that there have been many, many comments about how higher level players are becoming bored with the game because of the slow down in levelling. This idea would add back the excitement of regular levelling and, as a bonus, would provide another way to differentiate between builds so that we don't look alike. This would not supercede by previous suggestion about Lockerroom attributes.

Basically, starting with Level 31 (approximately the mid-point of level gain of a 10 year career), players would have a 2nd type of experience and levels that would begin to accrue. We'll call them prestige levels.

These prestige levels would be figured separately from actual player levels and would accrue XP based on the usual XP chart BUT they would start at level 1 (at player level 31).

The player would continue to get his floor XP and gain regular player levels but would have a separately accrued Prestige XP towards their Prestige Level.

For example, a player hits level 31. He continues to get 25XP per day and 90 XP per game on his way to level 32 and so on. However, at the same time he is getting 100 Prestige XP per day and 600 Prestige XP per game towards Prestige Level 2 and so on. By the time the player hits Player Level 32, he'll probably be somwhere are Prestige Level 6 or 7. Boosting will continue to effect Player level but will have no effect on Prestige Level.

Each gain in prestige level will give the player Prestige Skill Points to assign to Prestige attributes. These attributes are as follows and are divided into two categories: Soft Cap Adjusters and Performance Boosters

Soft Cap Adjusters:

Gym Rat – Every 5 points raises the soft cap on Strength by 1. If the player has already spent points past the soft cap, it will raise their strength by that much. For example a player has a strength of 50 having spent 2 pts to raise strength from 49 to 50. A point in Stronger than average would raise the soft cap to 50 and raise this player’s actual strength to 51 for the points already spent.

Quick – As above with Agility

Track Star – As above with Speed

Laser Arm – As above with throwing

Technically Sound Blocker – As above with blocking

Textbook Tackler – As above with Tackling

Football Genius – As above with Vision

Marathoner – As above with Stamina

Cocky – As above with Confidence

High Jumper – As above with jumping

Strong Hands – As above with Catching

Soccer Star – As above with kicking and punting

Performance Boosters

Future Coach – Increases entire unit’s vision

Clutch – Increases performance in clutch situations (late in close game, OT)

Sure Tackler – Reduces the chance of a missed tackle when playing on balanced

Helmet on the ball – Increases the chance of a fumble when playing on balanced.

Hard to Beat – Less likely to get fooled by pump fakes and receiver moves

Slippery – Higher chance for a QB to break a tackle on a sack

GoTo Guy – Gives a boost to a receiver’s “open or not” read by the QB

Never Gives Up – Reduces the “downtime” by getting pancaked or beat by a move or a pump fake.

As I said, I believe this will add back in the excitement of regular levelling for higher level players AND will also provide a way for players to differentiate themselves even more from the standard cookie cutter builds.




kinda of takes the blatent money suck out of it... not sure this would fly. Probably better to have non-boosters gain 1 level per season with the boosters gaining 3 times as much by spending money. That deffinately keeps the cash rolling in.

the thread got stickyed and bort essentially said he will implement some version of this idea, but yah, no chance at it happening because bort wants to steal your money.

Originally posted by TJ Spikes
kinda of takes the blatent money suck out of it... not sure this would fly. Probably better to have non-boosters gain 1 level per season with the boosters gaining 3 times as much by spending money. That deffinately keeps the cash rolling in.

Everything we do isn't based on how much money it would make...sheesh. If that were the case I would have charged more than 100 for private forums, since they seem to be a big hit so far.

I wouldn't be opposed to allowing players to boost Veteran levels, though, in exchange for boosting normal levels (like you could do 3 veteran levels, or 3 normal levels, but not both). Just a thought to extend conversation.

Originally posted by Bort
Originally posted by TJ Spikes

kinda of takes the blatent money suck out of it... not sure this would fly. Probably better to have non-boosters gain 1 level per season with the boosters gaining 3 times as much by spending money. That deffinately keeps the cash rolling in.

Everything we do isn't based on how much money it would make...sheesh. If that were the case I would have charged more than 100 for private forums, since they seem to be a big hit so far.

I wouldn't be opposed to allowing players to boost Veteran levels, though, in exchange for boosting normal levels (like you could do 3 veteran levels, or 3 normal levels, but not both). Just a thought to extend conversation.

I posted this in one of the threads about the 10 season decline but what about this Bort...


After they hit the 10 season decline point you can still boost but you are only allowed to put points into the VAs and the locker room skills if those are in place before season 10. That would keep older players boosting but would not keep them from declining. It would make them useful to teams for a little bit longer by giving them a boost for being a veteran...

This may have already been brought up and stated already but it is late. Pardon me if I am just restating it again.

Originally posted by Zadith
Originally posted by Bort

Originally posted by TJ Spikes


kinda of takes the blatent money suck out of it... not sure this would fly. Probably better to have non-boosters gain 1 level per season with the boosters gaining 3 times as much by spending money. That deffinately keeps the cash rolling in.

Everything we do isn't based on how much money it would make...sheesh. If that were the case I would have charged more than 100 for private forums, since they seem to be a big hit so far.

I wouldn't be opposed to allowing players to boost Veteran levels, though, in exchange for boosting normal levels (like you could do 3 veteran levels, or 3 normal levels, but not both). Just a thought to extend conversation.

I posted this in one of the threads about the 10 season decline but what about this Bort...


After they hit the 10 season decline point you can still boost but you are only allowed to put points into the VAs and the locker room skills if those are in place before season 10. That would keep older players boosting but would not keep them from declining. It would make them useful to teams for a little bit longer by giving them a boost for being a veteran...

This may have already been brought up and stated already but it is late. Pardon me if I am just restating it again.

No I didn't see that - not a bad idea. It would reinforce the idea of them being "veteran" attributes too.

Glad you like it haha.

I figure that way if a player is pretty much worthless on the field a team may find him useful on the side lines or in the locker room for another 2-4 seasons before he is forced to retire. It would give older players some fresh energy.

i Saw some where in this thread some one asked why no one was coming up with Running back ideas well i have a two so i figured i would shot them out

Power Back

Being a power back your known for Falling froward and Driving the PILE. so maybe add a Skill that would Give a power back a chance to Drive his Tackler back, or fall forward. kind of like dive 4 yards.

A power back is also known for not losing yards. maybe make something so when they get hit behind the line of scrimmage they have a better chance of breaking the tackle.

Speed / Agility back

well after watching Barry sanders, What can i say they guy Ran 30 yards back to get 4 yards. but one thing about almost all Speed and Agi back they have amazing Vision.

why not give them an ability to see holes before they open or hit the whole faster then the avg back?

Originally posted by GG
Imo, rather than having a second tier of attributes and XP and levels...instead, incorporate the 'prestige' idea into a free-form buffet style aim towards specializing existing players.

Eg:-

You create a TE and make him fairly balanced but he's more of a receiver. By the time he hits say level 30, then it unlocks a buffet-style specialist attribute/SA area. Here, this player can now further develop and specialize his receiving TE. He will have say 5 or 10 attributes to choose from a collection of 50+. So that every player hitting level 30 can now tailor their player INDIVIDUALLY from others because pretty much no receiving TE will choose all the same 5 or 10 specialist attributes.

If the main aim of the original OP is to "just give vet players something more to do" then what I'm suggesting achieves that without creating a whole new realm of disparity. But actually would be more fun because it'd be about specializing your player.

Great Idea. I like the fact you can specialize your player and be exclusive from all.

GG did have one good idea in this thread, and that is to work harder to promote specialization.

Many of the suggested VA's are worthwhile for many or all positions, while many are only worthwhile for a few or even one.

It's important that there be 20 or so relevant VA's for any given player (except perhaps punters and kickers, as that's likely too hard to do), so that if one can only place points in five, one has to make choices and specialize. Not having soft caps for VA's will be one way, but more is better.

I do think the 100th point costing the same as the first will make a difference, as if they're anything like SA's, one probably won't notice much from them until they're pretty high, which is incentive to specialize (and to hit 100, one would have to put all 5 points from each VL through 20 into one, so anyone hitting 100 will be extremely specialized).

They also have to be balanced by usefulness, such that if "Clutch" is used, it sounds like something everyone will understandably want, but the bonuses in Clutch situations should be smaller than the bonuses of other VA's in their situations, in order to balance out.

Originally posted by Ken1
GG did have one good idea in this thread, and that is to work harder to promote specialization.

Many of the suggested VA's are worthwhile for many or all positions, while many are only worthwhile for a few or even one.

It's important that there be 20 or so relevant VA's for any given player (except perhaps punters and kickers, as that's likely too hard to do), so that if one can only place points in five, one has to make choices and specialize. Not having soft caps for VA's will be one way, but more is better.

I do think the 100th point costing the same as the first will make a difference, as if they're anything like SA's, one probably won't notice much from them until they're pretty high, which is incentive to specialize (and to hit 100, one would have to put all 5 points from each VL through 20 into one, so anyone hitting 100 will be extremely specialized).

They also have to be balanced by usefulness, such that if "Clutch" is used, it sounds like something everyone will understandably want, but the bonuses in Clutch situations should be smaller than the bonuses of other VA's in their situations, in order to balance out.


I don't think you need to do that. Clutch is only going to come up in certain situations which really come about fairly infrequently. I would definie clutch as plays late in the game when the game is on the line. I would not broaden it to include any 3rd or 4th down situation at any point in the game. Others will happen on every single play you are involved with. I think that balances itself out.