Warrior General Games

Originally posted by Dr. Showtime


#5 – Updates to several VAs

Originally posted by Bort


Ok, I'm bumping this with the changes I know I'm making:

- Outside blocker doesn't work on screens (only rushing plays)
- Special teamer works half strength for KR/PR
- Zone specialist only works for SS, FS, CB (or maybe it should be 1/2 or 1/4 strength for other positions?)
- I think ball hawk's speed bonus needs toning down. I've seen some guys zip around at speeds of 40+ when their normal speed is 25.



BOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

any sophisticated answer why Outside Blocker shouldn't work on a screen for a FB or TE? no? thought so...
Zone Specialist only working for DBs! wow, great, now all my LBs will run around like idiots when playing zone - fantastic!
Ball Hawk being toned down - yeah, I was already worried about all those interceptions we've been making... has anyone actually checked how many TDs QBs throw nowadays compared to interceptions???

don't make changes just for the sake of changing something, do it to make the freaking game better for Pete's sake!

Originally posted by Bort

Ok, I'm bumping this with the changes I know I'm making:

- Outside blocker doesn't work on screens (only rushing plays)

This may totally ruin a great VA. It was already limited to sweeps and screens per the description. If screens are taken away is it possible that outside handoff runs can be added?

Originally posted by Bort
- Updated multi-boosts (3x) to re-load the player between boosts to eliminate rounding issues, so boosting 3x is ensured to be the same as doing a 1x boost 3 times, every time.

If you are going to be addressing boosting. Have you heard or noticed another isssue? I have noticed that if a player naturally levels without boosting to level 22 he gets the max level gains he got from level 1 to 21. If he boosts to level 22 then he gets the reduced level gains that should start at level 22.

Below are examples. Both players have been built identical. One player is holding more SP than the other due to training but if you look at the decimals you can see how the first SS benifited from naturally reacing level 22 in the past and the other SS was penalized for boosting to level 22.

Naturally reached level 22 now his majors have a .9
http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=1229480

Boosted from level 21 to level 22 and now his majors have a .8
http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=1229487

Originally posted by AngryDragon
If you are going to be addressing boosting. Have you heard or noticed another isssue? I have noticed that if a player naturally levels without boosting to level 22 he gets the max level gains he got from level 1 to 21. If he boosts to level 22 then he gets the reduced level gains that should start at level 22.

Below are examples. Both players have been built identical. One player is holding more SP than the other due to training but if you look at the decimals you can see how the first SS benifited from naturally reacing level 22 in the past and the other SS was penalized for boosting to level 22.

Naturally reached level 22 now his majors have a .9
http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=1229480

Boosted from level 21 to level 22 and now his majors have a .8
http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=1229487

That's really weird o_o

Originally posted by Voltron
That's really weird o_O

I have noticed this since season 5 but never put 2 and 2 together until I built two players side by side. The first one is about 500 XP ahead of the other so he reached level 22 naturally at the end of last season. I boosted both to level 24 at the end of last season so they could start gaining VP this season but stay below level 28 for next season.

That is when the master plan will be unleashed.

Originally posted by Deathblade
It may actually just be better to use the "left/right" shift on all blocking.

If you make the "lead" player ignore the outside most, it might turn out decent.

Using that example,

____RDE_DT____NT_MLB_LDE_LOLB
_LT__LG__C__RG__RT__

The RT would block the LDE, the RG would block the MLB, the C would block the NT, the LG would block the DT, and the LT would block the RDE...while the LOLB goes free. It would basically be the entire line collapsing on the right side, while the QB could roll out to the left.

I think this is basically what you have to do. The C starts by making a choice on where the "center" of the blocking is going to be, based on blitzers and blockers available (TE/FB/HE) and then the other players pick up inside-out from there. The next step is to determine what should happen on vision check failures.

Center picks the wrong centerpoint - do the other players know his pick? it would make sense that he was calling out the blocking plan at the line and if the C picks the DT instead of the NT above, what does a successful LG and LT do? Pick up the RDE and the LG doubles either the RDE or the DT, right? What about a successful RG and RT - they pick up the NT and MLB and the two edge guys get free, I'd assume.
What happens if there's a TE blocking in that scheme above, and the RT misses the MLB and picks up the LDE instead? Should the TE try to cut inside and pick up the MLB, or pick up the LOLB?
I don't know how the QB responds to pressure right now, but it would make sense for the QB to also get a chance to have a "vision check" on the incoming blitz and realize if there's an overload on one side or the other and plan to roll away from it.

Hopefully there's ways to fail the vision check to where you think someone is blitzing, but they aren't. That DE isn't coming after all, he's dropping back into a zone. Whoops, too bad you decided to block him - waste some time figuring out who to block instead. That MLB didn't blitz either; whoops, picked the wrong center and now an edge guy is free even though only 5 guys are coming.
There's also an opportunity for some defensive VAs here - Fake Blitz VA; gives an increased chance for the Oline to pick him up as a blitzer when he's not blitzing. Hide Blitz VA; gives an increased chance for the Oline to fail to see him blitzing on the pre-snap check. And so on. O-line could have VAs that are related as well, which increases the number of useful VAs for both O-line and LBs.

Originally posted by NiborRis
I don't know how the QB responds to pressure right now, but it would make sense for the QB to also get a chance to have a "vision check" on the incoming blitz and realize if there's an overload on one side or the other and plan to roll away from it.

If you watch the test games, you can see the QB will roll away from the pressure, usually.

As for the fake blitzing stuff, yeah that would be a good long-term goal, I completely agree. I've been somewhat "excited" about blocking schemes being fixed because it would also allow options like fake blitzing, delayed blitz, etc etc.

Originally posted by AngryDragon
If you are going to be addressing boosting. Have you heard or noticed another isssue? I have noticed that if a player naturally levels without boosting to level 22 he gets the max level gains he got from level 1 to 21. If he boosts to level 22 then he gets the reduced level gains that should start at level 22.

Below are examples. Both players have been built identical. One player is holding more SP than the other due to training but if you look at the decimals you can see how the first SS benifited from naturally reacing level 22 in the past and the other SS was penalized for boosting to level 22.

Naturally reached level 22 now his majors have a .9
http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=1229480

Boosted from level 21 to level 22 and now his majors have a .8
http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=1229487

Are you sure that's what happened? Because I know that if you boost a player from level 20 to level 22 with a 2x boost, you would get the level 20 points x2, rather than the level 20 points and the level 21 points. If I remember right (and the wiki is so unclear about it), level 21->level 22 is when you get the decreased points (1.5/level instead of 2/level). Given that number, your 2nd player actually has 1 more gain at 2pts/level then he is supposed to, and the description of what I gave above is what would cause that.
Bort's fix above will fix this issue (and the rounding problem as well).

Originally posted by NiborRis
Are you sure that's what happened? Because I know that if you boost a player from level 20 to level 22 with a 2x boost, you would get the level 20 points x2, rather than the level 20 points and the level 21 points. If I remember right (and the wiki is so unclear about it), level 21->level 22 is when you get the decreased points (1.5/level instead of 2/level). Given that number, your 2nd player actually has 1 more gain at 2pts/level then he is supposed to, and the description of what I gave above is what would cause that.
Bort's fix above will fix this issue (and the rounding problem as well).

Yep, I am positive about this. There may be other factors that I am not aware of but I am certain that the SS who naturally leveled to 22 gained as if he were level 1 to 22. The second SS I boosted to level 22 from level 21 because he is about 500 XP behind the other. The second SS got level gains as if he were level 22 to 29. I then boosted the first SS to level 25 and the second to level 24 each one level at a time.

I always assumed that the 3 boost round up was as intended as was the gains given to a player naturally reaching level 22 instead of boosting to level 22. That is why I never mentioned this. I simply thought it was not a bug.

Question for the Admins:

Will Bracket Cover set ups like this ==>

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=800058&pbp_id=17796498

...result in DOUBLE/TRIPLE hits on WR?

If so, will the admins ALSO consider inputting OTHER potential penalties, like defensive holding and pass interference, to off-set the potentially HUGE negative effects on Speed-based/Lower Strength WR. I would think you should consider doing so to prevent them from getting "stuck" inside of the 5 yd "bump zone"...

Originally posted by

Ok, I'm bumping this with the changes I know I'm making:

- Outside blocker doesn't work on screens (only rushing plays)
- Special teamer works half strength for KR/PR
- Zone specialist only works for SS, FS, CB (or maybe it should be 1/2 or 1/4 strength for other positions?)
- I think ball hawk's speed bonus needs toning down. I've seen some guys zip around at speeds of 40+ when their normal speed is 25.

1. The solution is not nerfing, but altering defenders pathing and logic. Don't kill the offense, fix the defense.
2. The solution is not nerfing, but again altering ST pathing and logic.
3. Makes no sense at all. Linebackers can't be zone specialists? Why?
4. THe main problem with both the Special Teamer and Ball Hawk is VA stacking. Simply code all VA's so that only one is functional at a time.

It boils down to two basic things:

1. Fix the SIM - Screens are buff because defender pathing makes no sense, and because defenders are not reading screens properly. The solution is not to penalize the offense, but to FIX THE DEFENSE. Outside blocker SHOULD work on sscreens. That makes total sense. What doesn't make sense is defenders running right into blockers. Fix that and the screen buff is fixed. Same thing goes for kick returns. Fix coverage pathing so that it makes sense and the return problem will largely go away (I say "largely because of point #2).

2. Eliminate VA stacking - There are probably multiple ways of doing this, but the most obvious is that only one VA can fire on any given play. Or there can only be one modification per attribute on any given play. That will take care of a lot of issues with the SIM itself.

Originally posted by whoshotjr
Originally posted by Darth Asheme

KR/PR nerf is kinda lame. Like they weren't terrible enough already.

Seems silly to me. From my experience KR/PR were:

- Tons of TD's against gut jobs or terrible teams
- Some TD's against decent competition who don't put much effort into ST
- Rarely a TD or even a big return against a decent team that has a few dedicated ST guys, and puts some thought to who they have on ST

Who exactly was asking for this?

It's the same fucking shit. It's people bitching about stats without caring about realism.