Warrior General Games

Currently morale is an "all encompassing" measure.

If you get into an Aura, you lose morale. If you get a monster hit, you lose morale. If you get a block broken, you lose morale.

At the same time, if your defense allows a touch down, you lose morale, if your QB throws an INT, you lose morale.

Why are they all involved in the same thing?

Proposed Suggestion: Split Morale into Three Types:

Team Momentum/Morale - This is a slight modifier to the rolls for the team. If you have the momentum, you get a slight bonus to winning rolls, if the momentum is against you, you get a slight reduction to winning them. Both teams start at 0, and the scale goes from -100 to 100.

Personal Momentum/Morale - If a player is performing well, he has "personal" momentum, even if the team does not have the momentum in the game. This gives a slight bonus to his rolls in a similar fashion as the team momentum does for everybody. Same scale as team scale.

Player Intimidation - This is the more complicated type and goes like this:

Player starts the game at 0, and goes from there.

-Intimidated (-1 to -100): If a player has an aura, or is putting big hits on the ball carrier, the ball carrier is probably going to be more intimidated by this player. When going against this player, his rolls receive a penalty based on how "intimidated" he is.

-Confident (+1 to +100): If a player continues to beat another specific player, he's going to be more confident when going against that specific player. This would lead to an increase in rolls against this player


Now, if you get intimidated by a player, that doesn't mean you will be all game. If you get a monster hit laid on you, obviously you're going to be intimidated, but if you come out the next play and power through the SAME defender, that Monster Hit the play before won't be as "intimidating".

Intimidation/Confidence applies ONLY on a specific player vs specific player. RB1 vs LB1 will have a different result than RB1 vs LB2 will, if the players have any different performance.

- Added suggestion: Player performance impact morale reducing abilities. If a player has Aura, but misses tackles, his aura may go down. If he lays a few monster hits, he may become "more" intimidating, increasing the effect of his aura. This would apply to Snarl, Aura, The Glare, and Trash Talk





Now, before anybody gets upset about team morale and personal morale causing death spirals, think of it like this:

If your team is losing, and you don't have the team momentum, but your RB is performing well and has personal momentum, his continued performance, mixed possibly with a stop by the defense may end up causing the momentum shift. Your RB could possibly get into such a rhythm that he could shift the momentum single handedly. This could lead to players "getting in a rhythm" and performing well.


What about confidence and current morale? Confidence would decrease the rate at which you get intimidated/allow you to resist intimidation some what, and would increase your rate of "confident" gain. It would also increase the rate of personal/team morale gain, and decrease the loss.

Ok, I looked at it Staz.

Team and personal morale are actually already part of the sim. The total morale effect for a player is a combination of the two.

Intimidation is an interesting idea. There'd basically have to be a relationship hash for each player->player relation. Would it just average with the player's morale, or would it be additive? One thing that would be interesting is that players would end up reacting differently to guys that hit them hard before. They'd slow down more, etc. Might be interesting (have thought of this before) to have a "cringe" effect if about to get pummeled by a guy who really intimidates you.

Not sure about the idea with the morale buster SA's. Seems like the intimidation factor idea might cover that already.

Originally posted by Bort
Ok, I looked at it Staz.

Team and personal morale are actually already part of the sim. The total morale effect for a player is a combination of the two.
I was trying to separate the two, though. As I currently understand it, morale includes both types, but they are two different animals. I may be misunderstanding, though. Are you saying the idea as I have it suggested is already in the sim? I was hoping for two separate concepts. Team morale first, player morale on top of that.

You could be on a team that is losing, getting stopped on 3rd downs, QB throwing interceptions, etc But, as the RB, whenever you get the ball you bust off a decent run, break a tackle or fake a defender. You've got personal momentum, while your team does not. You might suffer slightly because of that, but because of your personal momentum, you're able to overcome the team penalty.

Originally posted by Bort
Intimidation is an interesting idea. There'd basically have to be a relationship hash for each player->player relation. Would it just average with the player's morale, or would it be additive?

I would say it would have to be separate in some fashion. I was hoping the momentum would impact rolls, and intimidation would impact football skills AND rolls. Perhaps the rolls for intimidation would be added on top of the momentum. I'm not sure what the effect of additive vs averaging would be without seeing numbers, though.

Originally posted by Bort
Not sure about the idea with the morale buster SA's. Seems like the intimidation factor idea might cover that already.


Intimidation: Consider the idea about the morale busters basically as intimidation acting as a multiplier to the effect of the SAs. Sort of a side note, but you do have a point with that being covered. Compounding the two could be a bad idea.

Originally posted by Staz
I was trying to separate the two, though. As I currently understand it, morale includes both types, but they are two different animals.

You could be on a team that is losing, getting stopped on 3rd downs, QB throwing interceptions, etc But, as the RB, whenever you get the ball you bust off a decent run, break a tackle or fake a defender. You've got personal momentum, while your team does not. You might suffer slightly because of that, but because of your personal momentum, you're able to overcome the team penalty.

Yeah, that's how it works. Team events hit everyone, personal events hit just the player. The morale goes from 0 to 100, and starts at 100, though, as opposed to -100 to 100. Not sure how the -100 to 100 scale would work. Don't really want to introduce more bonuses.

Originally posted by Staz
Intimidation: Consider the idea about the morale busters basically as intimidation acting as a multiplier to the effect of the SAs. Sort of a side note, but you do have a point with that being covered. Compounding the two could be a bad idea.

Yeah, I don't really think it's needed.

I edited my post, since I didn't read your reply thoroughly.


The -100 to 100 bonus was basically like this: Start at 0, neutral. If you gain momentum, you go into positive momentum (increasing the effect on rolls), if you lose momentum you drop (decreasing effect, and if you go negative, increasing the negative effect)


With intimidation, I'd like to possibly see a way for a player performing well to become more intimidating. For example, if LB1 laid two monster hits on RB2, but hasn't even gone against RB1 yet, his aura may intimidate RB1 more than it would have at the start of the game because he's seen RB2 get trucked twice. I'm just trying to envision some sort of performance based multiplier for those things that would increase the effect on the intimidation/confidence meter. Would take some thinking to not make it overpowered, but still have the effect I'm thinking of.

Also, this was mentioned on the TS, what are your thoughts?
Originally posted by Mat McBriar
I think it's really a two stage situation with your morale.

When things start to go 'wrong' you first:
- Get mad
- Play harder to correct the issue
- End up playing more reckless and sloppy due to increased anger

After shit has hit the fan:
- Don't try as hard.
- Give up.
- Want the game to end.


GLB could better simulate morale by splitting it into two stages I think. First being +% hits to tackling, carrying, catching, blocking, throwing, vision, kicking, and punting. Only when morale was super low would you get the hit to speed/agility/strength/jumping.

Likewise confidence could play a factor in where that super low point was. Simulating the will to not give up that some athletes have.

Originally posted by Staz
I edited my post, since I didn't read your reply thoroughly.


The -100 to 100 bonus was basically like this: Start at 0, neutral. If you gain momentum, you go into positive momentum (increasing the effect on rolls), if you lose momentum you drop (decreasing effect, and if you go negative, increasing the negative effect)


See I don't think that would work. Too many bonuses when you go positive. I'd prefer to just have full strength vs reduced strength.

Originally posted by Staz
Also, this was mentioned on the TS, what are your thoughts?
Originally posted by Mat McBriar

I think it's really a two stage situation with your morale.

When things start to go 'wrong' you first:
- Get mad
- Play harder to correct the issue
- End up playing more reckless and sloppy due to increased anger

After shit has hit the fan:
- Don't try as hard.
- Give up.
- Want the game to end.


GLB could better simulate morale by splitting it into two stages I think. First being +% hits to tackling, carrying, catching, blocking, throwing, vision, kicking, and punting. Only when morale was super low would you get the hit to speed/agility/strength/jumping.

Likewise confidence could play a factor in where that super low point was. Simulating the will to not give up that some athletes have.



It's a very interesting idea. What would be the threshold? Or would it just be gradual/exponential? Like at 90% you get a -.00001% to your physicals and at 10% you get -50%?

Originally posted by Bort
See I don't think that would work. Too many bonuses when you go positive. I'd prefer to just have full strength vs reduced strength.

If team momentum = small bonus (enough that when you're at +50 or more, it's noticeable, but not dominant with evenly matched teams) and personal momentum is probably 10% stronger than that, I think it'd be a decent option.

If you consider the fact that just because the team is doing well, doesn't mean a player is doing well and could easily blow a play and take a major hit to momentum, I think it is something worth considering. An OT at -20 personal momentum, but +40 team momentum could miss a block, leading to a sack, and boom. He's at -40 momentum, and the team drops to +20 momentum. Now, that OT is even bigger liability, and unless he starts to pick it up, could cost the team their momentum. Now, if the RB is at +50 personal, and +40 team, and the OT gives up the sack, and goes to +20 team, then the RB comes into the game and busts off a big run due to his personal boost, brings the team back up, etc.

That OT could still be at poor momentum, and could still get handled. I think those sort of things could easily keep momentum from getting out of control, especially with a well balanced "boost" or "penalty"

Originally posted by Bort
It's a very interesting idea. What would be the threshold? Or would it just be gradual/exponential? Like at 90% you get a -.00001% to your physicals and at 10% you get -50%?

I would say it would be more of a threshold, and once you hit that point it becomes a more gradual penalty. I'd say that threshold would be based off of your confidence levels, though (curved based on level/age, to prevent the low level teams from packing it in after getting to 80 morale). The lower your confidence, the sooner you're going to "give up", and the more you have, the longer you're going to fight it out because confidence very well could = pride.

Edit: To add something to this - I think the idea of adding morale subs to the game would almost be necessary. If my RB is having a tough time, and losing morale quickly, I might want to go ahead and sit him a bit, let him 'recollect' himself. Team momentum would still impact him, but the longer a player sits on the bench, the closer to "0" he would get. His personal momentum, if positive, would start to wear off a bit because he's been sitting and hasn't been staying in his rhythm (which is why players in a rhythm hate things like half time), and if he's got negative personal momentum, he starts to climb back to 0 because he's calming himself down a bit.


Edit2: What about making player momentum the "main" thing in morale, and having team momentum be a "multiplier" of sorts? Then intimidation could be a multiplier on top of that.

Originally posted by Bort
Ok, I looked at it Staz.

Team and personal morale are actually already part of the sim. The total morale effect for a player is a combination of the two.

Intimidation is an interesting idea. There'd basically have to be a relationship hash for each player->player relation. Would it just average with the player's morale, or would it be additive? One thing that would be interesting is that players would end up reacting differently to guys that hit them hard before. They'd slow down more, etc. Might be interesting (have thought of this before) to have a "cringe" effect if about to get pummeled by a guy who really intimidates you.

Not sure about the idea with the morale buster SA's. Seems like the intimidation factor idea might cover that already.
perhaps bort, but however you coded it works like crap and does not work like the OP described at all. So in your mind you think you have it working like that, but really does not. Wide disparity of morale. Oline does not get moral boosts for pounding the ball. Defense rarely has any morale drains. So please understand if no one sees and understands it because what you has does not work right if that is what you intend!!!!!!!!!!

and fact is bort, the poor management of morale was not noted until you "upped" it and gave us pretty icons to be able to "see it."

Originally posted by peacebringer
Originally posted by Bort

Ok, I looked at it Staz.

Team and personal morale are actually already part of the sim. The total morale effect for a player is a combination of the two.

Intimidation is an interesting idea. There'd basically have to be a relationship hash for each player->player relation. Would it just average with the player's morale, or would it be additive? One thing that would be interesting is that players would end up reacting differently to guys that hit them hard before. They'd slow down more, etc. Might be interesting (have thought of this before) to have a "cringe" effect if about to get pummeled by a guy who really intimidates you.

Not sure about the idea with the morale buster SA's. Seems like the intimidation factor idea might cover that already.
perhaps bort, but however you coded it works like crap and does not work like the OP described at all. So in your mind you think you have it working like that, but really does not. Wide disparity of morale. Oline does not get moral boosts for pounding the ball. Defense rarely has any morale drains. So please understand if no one sees and understands it because what you has does not work right if that is what you intend!!!!!!!!!!


now that is a post to garner a positive response.....

kinda ironic when you look at your username too.

Originally posted by amace
Originally posted by peacebringer

Originally posted by Bort


Ok, I looked at it Staz.

Team and personal morale are actually already part of the sim. The total morale effect for a player is a combination of the two.

Intimidation is an interesting idea. There'd basically have to be a relationship hash for each player->player relation. Would it just average with the player's morale, or would it be additive? One thing that would be interesting is that players would end up reacting differently to guys that hit them hard before. They'd slow down more, etc. Might be interesting (have thought of this before) to have a "cringe" effect if about to get pummeled by a guy who really intimidates you.

Not sure about the idea with the morale buster SA's. Seems like the intimidation factor idea might cover that already.
perhaps bort, but however you coded it works like crap and does not work like the OP described at all. So in your mind you think you have it working like that, but really does not. Wide disparity of morale. Oline does not get moral boosts for pounding the ball. Defense rarely has any morale drains. So please understand if no one sees and understands it because what you has does not work right if that is what you intend!!!!!!!!!!


now that is a post to garner a positive response.....

kinda ironic when you look at your username too.
so do you think morale works as described as Bort claims it is? Seriously?

and sorry if overly direct.
I read the suggestion and thought if it worked that would be helpful. I read bort say, um, it already does that when anyone watching the game can see that however it is set to work does not work that way and highly "unbalanced"