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Forum > Suggestions > Epic Suggestions > Gigantic Morale Change
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Please note that I made this before the season 17 changes. I still think that this suggestion (with adequate testing) could be way better than the morale system we have now, but some of the reasons I gave for changing the system might be outdated.



Originally posted by Cliffnotes, Sparknotes, ADDnotes

- lolmorale makes me . It's great idea, but isn't working well right now. I know morale was reverted to last season's system; these changes are aimed at the morale system we've had all along
- Make morale affect vision, confidence, and everything that the "Clutch" VA affects
- Make morale get affected more by what happens in a play. Changes more if score is close and late in game
- Start morale at 50, go up or down from there. Upper limit at 75 if losing, and lower limit at 25 if winning. Morale changes less if further away from 50. Contract bonuses add to the starting player morale
- The bench neutralizes high/low morale each play based on position and number of plays (weighted morale average)
- Change a few of the SAs and a VA to make it necessary that something happens on the field before morale is directly affected (i.e. just the act of playing won't drain morale like in Pummel or AOI)
- Change the way confidence is used to resist SAs (go from a fixed minimum value to a percentage change)
- Add team morale. Same as personal morale but affected only by scoring, first downs, and turnovers. Personal morale cannot go more than 50 points from team morale. Promos add to the starting team morale (by Staz)
- Add player intimidation. The morale interactions between specific players also plays a role (by Staz)
- Combine personal morale, team morale, and player intimidation. Ratio could be 50/25/25


The Problem

The current morale system in GLB is currently both (a) unrealistic and (b) counter-productive. I am talking about what we've had in place for a long time (not the S16 stuff that was just reverted). The idea of morale in GLB itself is pretty fun and realistic but I think the system could be improved.

In terms of realism, the morale system makes little sense. There are many SAs that simply drain morale, regardless of if the affected player is having a good game or not. Ballcarriers get a morale hit when tackled even if they are averaging 10 yards a carry in a close game. You can have a player score a touchdown and his morale decrease the next play. You have teams losing by huge margins despite being extremely competitive for the first two quarters. You've got players becoming significantly weaker and slower because they dropped a pass or let a defender shed their block. There are many examples of how the morale system doesn't correspond to anything remotely realistic.

Furthermore, the morale system is not conducive to a fun GLB sim. Quite simply, the morale system kills parity. Games between teams of roughly equal skill can become blowouts. It's as if two people are playing tug-of-war on the roof of a couple skyscapers. The first team to gain a bit of ground is almost always going to emerge victorious because the other team will be thrust into a morale spiral. Parity is one of the biggest problems in GLB, and the morale spiral is largely to blame. The game should be decided more by the use of builds and gameplanning; not by the volatility of the morale system.


My Solution

My solution is a complete overhaul of the morale system. While I do believe morale has an extremely important role to play, I believe that it should be grounded in realism and contribute to the game in a more constructive manner.


(1) Change what morale affects.

This is going to be a rather big change from what we have now, but I feel it'll lead to a better sim. The crux of my changes is the following: Low morale does not directly affect all of your attributes. It affects (1) vision, (2) confidence, and (3) making plays on offense, defense, kicking, and punting in all situations, especially late in the game. Basically, low morale makes you anti-clutch (but it also applies to 1st and 2nd down). Because morale wouldn't affect attributes that are absolutely critical to preventing further morale losses, the likelihood of a morale spiral (and thus an uncompetitive game), is decreased.


(2) Change how morale is affected (still similar to how it is now).

My proposed changes ARE compatible with the new promo / contract systems. For now, I'll assume that there are no promotions/ minimum contracts and then introduce how they affect that later.

Making any football play (e.g. deflecting passes, getting a hurry or sack, breaking a tackle, catching a ball) results in a morale change. This isn't any different from how it is now. However, when the EFFECT of that football play should modify the morale gained/lost. For example, consider a rusher. Gaining 3 yards and a first down should be worth more than just gaining 3 yards. Gaining 25 yards should be worth more than gaining 15 yards. As you'll see with my morale changes below, when a player does something extremely positive for the team (e.g. receive a TD), there should be no way the player has lower morale the next play. Confidence directly affects how big or small the bonuses/penalties are. This might be how Bort has it set up now.

Originally posted by Staz
Perhaps the closer the score, the more morale you can lose/gain? I'd probably set it up like a % multiplier to the original morale "impact". So if I get a touchdown, but I'm up by 28, it's not really going to be a big deal. If I get a touchdown and it brings us within 3 points, that's a big deal. Same with a lot of interactions. If I'm a FS, and my team is up by 3 and I get a pick, that's going to be a bigger deal than if we're down/up by 30 points.

Could even make that value rise later in the game.



(3) Change how morale is scaled.

Every player starts the game at 50 morale, which can go up to 100 or down to 0. If a player comes into the game and makes a series of great plays, their morale should be higher than what they started the game with. Now here's where stuff changes a lot. If your team is WINNING, your morale cannot fall below 25. If your team is LOSING, your morale cannot rise beyond 75. The sim still records morale changes outside this range; the limit is only applied when applying morale bonuses/penalties. I think this change is very realistic; regardless of if you're having a shitty game, if your team is winning you'll be happier than if your team was losing.
Originally posted by climberpete
Decrease morale change based on distance from 50. In this case scoring a TD for a player with morale 55 would invoke a higher morale change than for a player at morale 75. This would tend to curb the extreme morale changes that could occur in big blowouts.

Contract bonuses add to the starting personal morale.


(4) Add bench morale effects.

The bench acts as a neutralizer. For every single play, every player at each position NOT on the field tends to equalize morale with every other player at that position based upon the cumulative number of plays each player as had. I propose that the equalizing factor is 10% per play. To prevent funky stuff from happening near the start of the game, a player must have played at least 10 plays to be affected by "bench effects". There also much be at minimum 3 players at the position on the bench to trigger "bench effects" for that position. Position on the depth chart is irrelevant. It is rather confusing, so I'll try to give an example.

There are 6 LBs on the team on the bench creatively named A, B, C, D, E, and F. The team is losing. Suppose the plays and morale are given as follows:
Player A (20 plays, 50 morale)
Player B (20 plays, 20 morale)
Player C (20 plays, 0 morale)
Player D (40 plays, 40 morale)
Player E (10 plays, 70 morale)
Player F (5 plays, 75 morale)

Player F has played fewer than the required 10 plays, so he is not affected by and does not affect bench morale (Player E has exactly enough plays).The weighted average of the morale is summed for each position.
Linebacker weighted morale average = (20*50+20*20+20*0+40*40+10*70)/(20+20+20+40+10)
= 33.6

After 1 play on the bench, each linebacker has their morale shift 10% towards the weighted morale average for all linebackers. So for our example, the morale would shift as follows.
Player A (50 morale -> 48.36)
Player B (20 morale -> 21.36)
Player C (0 morale -> 3.36)
Player D (40 morale -> 39.36)
Player E (70 morale -> 66.36)
Player F (75 morale -> 75 - Fewer than 10 plays)

It doesn't seem like much, but keep in mind that this is after ONE play on the bench. If any of the LBs were not on the bench, they would simply not be affected by or affect the bench morale. Again, there would have to be at least 3 LBs with more than 10 plays each on the bench for this to be triggered.

Additionally, Staz suggested that the rate at which a player loses or gains morale could be modified by its confidence (more confidence = slower losses, faster gains).


(5) Re-work some morale-affecting SAs.

The driving force behind my proposed changes is because I don't believe that a player should directly affect anything player's morale without actually doing anything first. For example, if some dude Snarls at me but I break his tackle, I shouldn't lose any morale. If I'm consistently owning the CB across from me, I shouldn't lose morale because he has some magical aura. I feel that the Demoralize SA for scrambling QBs is a good SA because it requires the player that has the SA to actually perform an action successfully.

All the morale-affecting SAs I did NOT list here don't warrant any changes, in my opinion. I think all of the morale-affecting VAs will be fine, other than Intimidation.

Originally posted by Aura of Intimidation
This player is so mean, opposing players are intimidated. The Aura of Intimidation will increase the morale loss of opposing players when a football action is performed by this player (e.g. breaking tackles, deflecting passes, making tackles).

This skill will put fear in your opponents hearts, making it easier to tackle or avoid them in the future.

Additional Levels:
Increases the morale reduction factor.


Originally posted by Snarl
Snarl
The defender will snarl loudly while hitting the ball carrier, increasing his morale loss.

This skill has the effect of reducing an opponent's morale considerably after several snarling tackles.

Additional Levels:
Increases the chance of the skill working, and increases the penalty to the opponent's morale.


Originally posted by The Glare

The player will glare and snarl at the QB after a sack, hurry, or pass deflection in order to lower his morale. QBs with very high confidence are less likely to be affected.

This skill is more effective than Trash Talk. Both skills may be combined to really hurt the QB's morale.

Additional Levels:
Increases chance to affect morale, and increases morale deduction.


Originally posted by Trash Talk
The player will use trash talk to try to intimidate the QB after a sack, hurry, or pass deflection, reducing his morale. QBs with very high confidence are less likely to be affected.

This skill is useful to any defender, but especially those who pass rush a lot.

Additional Levels:
Increases chance to affect morale, and increases morale deduction.


Originally posted by Absorb Pain

This player has a high pain tolerance. The Absorb Pain skill gives him the ability to take punishment from defenders without flinching or losing morale. He also uses less stamina to block defenders.

This skill is important when playing against big, powerful defenders.

Additional Levels:
Reduces stamina loss when pass blocking defenders and morale loss when a block is shed.


Originally posted by Pummel

This player uses every advantage he can when blocking, really putting the hurt on his man. The Pummel skill decreases the morale of a defender when engaged in this player's block for the entire duration of a play.

This skill is important for all blockers, and can help demoralize a defender by making their efforts seem futile.

Additional Levels:
Increases penalty to defender morale by even more.



(6) Change morale-reducing SA to a percentage chance from a binary system (and correspondingly re-work the Intimidation VA).

*This change might be actually be exactly how it is now. I don't know enough about the sim to know if this is actually how it's handled now. From the description of our current "Intimidation" VA, it seems like there's a fixed value that a player needs to resist an SA. For example, a QB might need 75 confidence to resist a LB that has 8 in Trash Talk (purely fictitious values). Other evidence to back this up is the fact that Trash Talk and Glare for LBs are generally considered completely useless at the Pro/WL level due to the high confidence values on QBs.

This change is kinda just a continuation of the SA changes. I want to slightly change how certain morale-affecting SAs are handled. I think that a percentage chance, as opposed to the previously described "minimum requirement" would be a better way of handling it. In the same example, a QB with 75 confidence might have an 80% chance of resisting a LB that has 8 in Trash Talk. If the QB has 60 confidence, that could drop to 30%. A QB shouldn't all of a sudden become immune to these SAs once he passes a certain threshold. It should just be a roll, like other things in GLB. Along with this change, I'd change the Intimidation VA.

Originally posted by Intimidation

This player would scare anyone. Each level of Intimidating decreases the likelihood of resisting the Trash Talk, Growl, Snarl, Aura of Intimidation, and Glare special abilities by 5%.


Once again, this might actually be how it is now, but I don't know enough about the sim to be certain. If it is how it is now, something needs to be changed to make 10 in Trash Talk and Glare, combined with 15 in Aura of Intimidation have some effect. I'm not say that effect has to be better than if the LB put those points into attributes or other SAs / VAs, but it should be a viable build to fill a role. A ton of the PL/WL linebackers don't even touch those SAs.


(7) Add team morale. (Staz)

Everything described thus far is for personal morale.

Team morale functions very similarly to personal morale. It ranges from 0 to 100, starts at 50 (with no promos), and goes up or down based upon the actions in the game. However, only certain things modify team morale. These include first downs, touchdowns, field goals, safeties, and turnovers. Essentially, putting up points, keeping the chains moving, or switching possession affects team morale. Team morale also affects the exact same things personal morale affects, but on a much smaller basis.

Promotions simply add to the 50 starting team morale (while contracts add to the personal morale)

Additionally, personal morale is limited by team morale in that any player's morale cannot go more than 50 points above or below the team morale. Once again, the sim still records morale changes outside the limits.


(8) Add player intimidation. (Staz)

Originally posted by Staz
Player starts the game at 0, and goes from there.

-Intimidated (-1 to -100): If a player has an aura, or is putting big hits on the ball carrier, the ball carrier is probably going to be more intimidated by this player. When going against this player, his rolls receive a penalty based on how "intimidated" he is.

-Confident (+1 to +100): If a player continues to beat another specific player, he's going to be more confident when going against that specific player. This would lead to an increase in rolls against this player


Now, if you get intimidated by a player, that doesn't mean you will be all game. If you get a monster hit laid on you, obviously you're going to be intimidated, but if you come out the next play and power through the SAME defender, that Monster Hit the play before won't be as "intimidating".

Intimidation/Confidence applies ONLY on a specific player vs specific player. RB1 vs LB1 will have a different result than RB1 vs LB2 will, if the players have any different performance.


I wasn't sure if it would work due to the number of interactions possible, but Staz informed me that values can be stored only when an interaction occurs.

In addition, the intimidation value could progress towards 0 with each play; there will be some sort of "deterioration" value in there. If I'm a RB and I get laid on my ass by a LB the first snap, but I don't even interact with him the rest of the game, I'll probably forget about him. Could have the value sort of "creep" back to 0, similar to the bench deal, for prolonged absences of interaction (Staz). The rate at which the values creeped back to zero would depend heavily upon how quickly a single interaction changes the intimidation values.


(9) Combine the effects of personal morale, team morale, and player intimidation in a suitable manner.

The weightings of these 3 morale effects will have to be tested quite a bit. If I had to come up with preliminary numbers, I'd use the following.

PM / TM / PI
50 / 25 / 25


____________________________________________________________________________________________________________


Anyways, I just came up with this today so it's definitely a work in progress. I tried to figure out any potential loopholes and modify the morale system to close them. I believe these changes would increase parity, while still maintaining the importance of confidence.

June 7: I just appended my interpretation of Staz's suggestion ( http://goallineblitz.com/game/forum_thread.pl?thread_id=3950794 ) in sections (7) and (8). It has already received a thumbs-up from Bort.

I appreciate any comments, criticisms, or questions about it. Thanks for your time (Cliffnotes are at the top if you don't have much).


Edited by Ronnie Brown 23 on Oct 26, 2010 14:20:38
Edited by Ronnie Brown 23 on Aug 7, 2010 12:48:43
Edited by Ronnie Brown 23 on Jun 8, 2010 11:37:34
Edited by Ronnie Brown 23 on Jun 8, 2010 11:32:23
Edited by Ronnie Brown 23 on Jun 7, 2010 11:40:17
 
amace
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Originally posted by changelog
May 28, 2010 (mid day patch)
- Revert morale effects to last season's version
 
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Originally posted by amace
Originally posted by changelog

May 28, 2010 (mid day patch)
- Revert morale effects to last season's version


I know they did that. I'm proposing changes to the old system. I still feel that it can be a lot better.

I edited my post to make it a bit more clear.
Edited by Ronnie Brown 23 on May 31, 2010 13:48:26
 
amace
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Originally posted by Ronnie Brown 23
Originally posted by amace

Originally posted by changelog


May 28, 2010 (mid day patch)
- Revert morale effects to last season's version


I know they did that. I'm proposing changes to the old system. I still feel that it can be a lot better.

I edited my post to make it a bit more clear.


gotcha, nto sure if you were aware or not.
 
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Ah okay, thanks
My post should be clear now

Maybe now wasn't the best time to post this as there's still fallout from all of these morale changes/revisions
Edited by Ronnie Brown 23 on May 31, 2010 14:04:38
 
Djmr
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Im just gonna comment on each part of the suggestion. The idea as a whole is good, but needs tinkering.

1. What should morale affect then? Maybe when morale is too high, players are overconfident, and attributes are affected negatively too?
2. Yes please, I like that idea. Every tackle broken gives a little bonus to morale to the rusher and a little penalty to morale for the defender. Gotta be careful not to make these numbers too big though, or morale would be swaying hugely.
3. Yeah, and win records, player career could play a part in it too? Like, say for example, if a team was on a ten-game winning streak, then lost 2 games, that could hurt the players more than a player who was on a losing team.
4. I like benched morale effects, but those numbers are too big of a swing, I say 5%, and when an LB had a bad play, his morale wouldnt rise. Whats with players not getting affected if they havent had 10 plays though? Id think players spending too much time on the bench would kill morale for them.
5. Win. Aura of Int just wrecks OLs even if the DL is much weaker, this really makes it so much more realistic.
 
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Thanks a lot for the comments.

1. I wanted decreased morale to decrease three things. The first would be the ability to pass vision checks (or just vision directly). The second would be confidence. I believe confidence is used in a variety of rolls in the sim, so a hit to confidence would result in a slightly decreased ability to pass those rolls. Unlike now, stuff like speed and strength aren't affected, so morale spirals wouldn't be as common. I also think it should affect everything that the Clutch VA affects, but for all situations (not just 3rd/4th down). Bort hasn't told us exactly what it affects, but I remember a quote saying that it if a player lit up every time Clutch triggered, it would look like a Christmas tree.

2. I think Bort already has something like this, but perhaps it should be tweaked a bit more. I think rushers should gain more morale if they ran for 20+ yards instead of 10 yards. Similarly, if a CB gives up a 2 yard catch, they should lose less than giving up an 8 yard catch. If a LB misses a tackle, but the player is brought down a yard later, he shouldn't lose as much energy as if he misses a tackle resulted in a 20 yard gain. As you said, balancing the numbers is absolutely key to prevent huge morale sways (although the bench morale thing I mentioned would help mitigate that).

3. That could be a good idea too. I'm just afraid that too much of the outcome of a game could rely on the schedules we are randomly assigned. Winning streaks might also decrease parity a bit. But yea, there are many external factors that affect morale in real life that we could consider implementing in GLB.

4. I actually originally had it at 5% but switched it to 10% because I felt it was way too small . I guess it's something that could be tweaked and tested if people like this idea. As for the 10 plays limit, I added that to prevent spirals really early in the game. If a player had a series of great plays, they'd raise the morale of all the other players at that position a ton early. I had this limit at 5 before but changed it to 10 . I just wanted to have some kind of means for preventing overpowering bench effects early in the game when the weighted average could be significantly affected by a single player.

5. Yea, I just wanted to eliminate morale drains that weren't contingent on actually doing something on the field. Pummel is another SA that I changed a lot... Perhaps the duration of the entire play might be a bit too long. I didn't want to specify a time value because then the SA would be overpowering in the lower leagues.

Thanks again for your comments!
Edited by Ronnie Brown 23 on May 31, 2010 21:59:00
 
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I'm not taking the time to read this.
 
Knick
Sknickers
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Didn't read the proposed SA/VA changes, but I like the idea.
 
Knick
Sknickers
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Originally posted by adrianpeterson69
I'm not taking the time to read this.


Then do us all a favor and don't take the time to post.
 
Shogun108
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What if morale effected your playing intensity in a small way instead of the current stat hits?
 
Xar
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This idea is impressively thought out and very well acceptable.

I read through

(1) Change what morale affects.
- I agree entirely that this is the way it needs to be done. However, as Shogun108 has suggested, perhaps a hit to playing intensity could be involved? I am not sure how playing intensity is figured into the sim, so this may not be able to work.

(2) Change how morale is affected (still similar to how it is now).
- Can't fault this idea. Simple and logical.

(3) Change how morale is scaled.
- See above comment.

(4) Add bench morale effects.
- I LOVE this idea. It makes perfect sense. A guy playing a great game is going to be annoyed he is on the bench, so his morale decreases, a guy having a crap game sits on the bench and he feels better because he can get his head together for the next play. Great idea.

(5) Re-work some morale-affecting SAs / VAs.
- From what I understand and have read this seems solid.

The worst part is that we cannot make a perfect suggestion without knowing exactly what will be effected in the sim. We don't know enough about it. We need Bort to come in and tell us what parts will work and what parts won't.

For what it's worth, I think this idea is the best I've seen in a very long time.
 
Xar
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Bump, because it's the best idea on here at this moment.
 
Frycicle
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tldr but i trust you
 
tuba_samurai
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I like it.
 
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