Originally posted by tb150120
I stumbled across this set of instructions (this is an excerpt of an entire step-by-step guide) that details how to begin training as a brand new player:
- enhance 1st Attribute10%
- light train 1st Attribute and enhance to 20%
- light train 1st Attribute 3x and enhance to 30%
- Intense train 1st Attribute
- After you hit level 5, and before you hit level 6, 2nd cap 1st Attribute at 61.4.
- At level 8 and before hitting level 9, 3rd cap 1st Attribute at 68.9.
- Buy 2nd Attribute and 3rd Attribute for multi-training. Then enhance both to 30%. If you can't get both there right away make sure 2nd Attribute is 30%, and then get 3rd Attribute there when you can.
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It keeps going from there, but I'm only concerned about the training aspect.
First issue is making sure that you're able to get your primary attribute to 34 on day 48. Using this method will not work, unless you get at least one training breakthrough. Multiple people have told me this. I don't know personally, since I've never used this method.
1.1*0.5 + 1.2*.5*3 + 1.3*1*6 = 10.15 (4 lt trains, 6 hard trains)
1.1*0.5 + 1.2*1*9 = 11.35 (1 lt train, 9 hard trains)
Difference = 1.2 effective trains
Mathematically, training on light once and then training on hard 9 times will give a greater training benefit. This also allows you to get to 34 before boosting. Spend the 15 SP, boost 3 times, and you get the ALGs and your primary is at 49.5 and you have 18 SP.
10.15 + 1.3*15 = 29.65
11.35 + 1.2*15 = 29.35
Difference = -0.3 effective trains
The difference in training value here is negligible. What is not negligible is that you get an additional 1.5 SP of value due to boosting with the main attribute already capped.
Adding another 15 trains will get you to day 6. First you cap at 61.5. Get your primary attribute to 52.5 and 90% trained (requires 7-8 trains) and then spend your 18 SP to cap at 61.5. Another 7-8 trains gets that attribute to 63.5, and ALGs takes it to 64.5 at level 6. This will not end up in capping your main at level 6, and due to decimal capping at level 7 doesn't help you. It's better to start quad training earlier.
An alternate method that takes advantage of decimal capping requires that you change your player's body type so that he only gets a bonus of 1.96 to his primary. If you do that then getting the third cap at level 7, spending SP to get to 68.96, is the right thing to do. I first read this from a post from Rage Kinard. However, if you do this then you'll have the SP so that you can cap from 63.96 instead of 64.96, which means that you should start quad training earlier.
In either case you should roll your primary from 61.5 to 62.5 with one train, then spend 3 more trains to raise the training percentage. Let's assume it took 8 trains to get to 90%, 1 train to roll after capping at 61.5, then 3 trains to raise. You currently have 42 BTs. Spend 36 to unlock 3 attributes for secondary training, and spend the other 6 to enhance your secondary attribute. Your first quad train will be on day 7, and you'll get your main training percentage close to 80%. Third cap will then occur at level 8, at 68.5 with 5 SP remaining (or 8 SP remaining if you rolled the attribute to 64.5 as discussed earlier). You'll then spend those 12 BTs on enhancing the other 2 attributes you're quad training. It really is the best thing to do to maximize training value for your dot.
Now, your training question: "Also, why don't people light train, light train, light train until they max out their enhanced training upgrades (5/5 stars) for their main attribute?"
There are several phases each dot goes through, most people call them early, middle, and late.
During the early build phase training isn't the main source of value for dots. The main source of value is ALGs. The reasons for this are that you gain levels faster than any other time in the game, and the value of the ALGs is never higher. Building for late game is a race to accumulate as many major ALGs as possible before level 21. Training still has to get your attention, but those ALGs are what is most important. A good build will be able to accumulate 9-10 ALGs by level 21, with most of those being in the primary attribute. Second season is still considered early build, so ALGs are still most important, but it transitions to middle build at the end of the second season.
During the middle build phase training becomes more important. Your primary attribute will be where you want it, and your secondary attribute will be there or be close. This is the time when training becomes more important, because after level 37 the ALGs drop to 40% of their original value. Capping becomes important in order to increase the value of training, and cap and roll becomes one of the primary ways you increase the SP value of your dot. Decimal capping (most people call it circle capping) also plays a huge role in maximizing the effectiveness of your training and use of the cap and roll strategy. However, you have to prepare for this during early build. The way you prepare for this is enhancing the attributes you will train. You will run out of BTs early on, so you have to enhance carefully:
Enhance x1: 6 BTs (can do 2 of these with one quad train, awesome value) (needs > 0.6 SP of value)
Enhance x2: 12 BTs (can do 1 with a single quad train, great value) (needs > 1.2 SP of value)
Enhance x3: 18 BTs (requires more than a single quad train, questionable value, depends on how long you'll be training the attribute) (needs > 1.8 SP of value)
Enhance x4: 24 BTs (haven't considered this at all) (needs > 2.4 SP of value)
Enhance x5: 30 BTs (very extreme, haven't considered this either) (needs > 3.0 SP of value)
Training is a big question and point of debate. I advocate training your main once to roll it after you "finish" the attribute at 86 or 88 or 90, then leaving it alone until late game. This allows you to train your secondary and 3 tertiary attributes to prepare for decimal capping during the middle build phase. This means that you will have spent your BTs on enhancing attributes to x2 and they'll be in the high 20s to low 30s, at which point the margin gained by enhancing to x3 over x2 is minimal for a long time. Instead, I enhanced lower attributes to x3. These attributes, usually under 20, are attributes that I will be training for quite a while starting at the high value of the really low attribute scores. Therefore, I can justify that I will get at least 2 SP of value for the x3 enhancement over the x2. If the attribute score is already at least 25 then I can't justify that I will get at least 2 SP of value for the x3 enhancement. Therefore I don't spend the BT to enhance x3 those attributes.
If you continue training your primary attribute then enhancing to x3 is recommended after the other attributes you're training are enhanced to at least x2. Enhancing to x4 and x5 are also recommended, but if you plan to do that you also need to plan to train your primary attribute as part of your quad train group for the first 4 seasons. There are many agents that do this. If you do this then you will then need to unlock your primary, secondary, and tertiary attributes for secondary training, instead of your secondary and 2 tertiary attributes.
I haven't reached end build yet. What I've read suggests that BTs, equipment, and dot balancing are what is important at this time. I will be figuring that out over the next 2 seasons.
Another question: "So are you suggesting 3-way train or 4-way?"
Here's a simple calculation to demonstrate that quad training is better than triple training:
1.3*4 * (3 quad trains in 12 days) = 15.6 with 36 BT, or 1.3 trains per training day, and 3 BT per train
1.2*3 * (4 triple trains in 12 days) = 14.4 with 32 BT, or 1.2 trains per training day, and 8/3 BT per train
If you're able to use decimal capping properly along with x2 and x3 enhancements then you'll be able to get 0.9 or 1 SP per train consistently using quad trains. That drops to 0.8 to 0.9 SP per train using triple trains, and you're also losing out on 1 BT every 3 days. That further limits your ability to enhance attributes, which makes it more difficult to maintain training value. Over the course of the season you're reducing the value of your dot by at least 5 SP by triple training instead of quad training. I pursue a value of 1 SP per 10 BT (1 BT = 0.1 SP), so the loss of 19 BT over 57 days means another 1.9 SP lost. Therefore, I would be losing 7 SP a season by triple training instead of quad training. That's half of an effective level each season.
One last question: "FWIW, I was told this particular build strategy results in an end-level build with an EL in the range of 1350-1450 depending on the build. In comparison to WL rosters, that looks to be pretty good."
Something called advanced player training, or some name like that, was implemented a few seasons ago. That's just a fancy term for quad training. Those older dots did not have access to quad training during their early build, so any build that uses quad training will be able to surpass those builds by a minimum of 50 SP. If you build a dot and aim for WL you probably won't make it at 1350-1450. I am aiming for 1500-1600 with my O linemen, and 1600-1700 with my QB. I don't know if I'll get there, or if it's even possible to get there. It's better to aim too high and fail than succeed and wonder if you didn't reach high enough.
One more thing. You want to listen to Hagalaz. He's been here a lot longer than I have and he knows what he's talking about. I haven't been here that long, but I'm applying advanced discrete mathematics to the problem of maximizing SP value in dots. If you doubt my conclusions then look at the value of my dots and compare to same level same age dots. I've found 1 QB with a higher player value, and I already know what day I'll be catching up to him.
