Warrior General Games

I have a level 27 possession guy right now, ran him through the VPB and this is what I came up with. This is my first possession WR so I'm looking to find out what areas I went to high or low and all that.

For AEQ I was thinking 2x Catch pieces, Juke and CEQ in Fake % (not sure about this just yet)

Player Build
PV: 1359.1
Position: wr_speedster
Season: 6
Day: 1
Boosts: 30
Level: 79
XP: 75
VA XP: 750
VA: 69
Bonus Tokens: 1238
Training Points: 0
SP: 0

Training Status:
strength : 90% <-- this I've planned to fix already lol.
speed : 1%
agility : 1%
jumping : 0%
stamina : 2%
vision : 0%
confidence : 0%
blocking : 0%
throwing : 0%
catching : 0%
carrying : 0%
tackling : 0%
kicking : 0%
punting : 0%

Attributes:
strength : 29
speed : 92.38 (+36)
agility : 86.38
jumping : 82
stamina : 48
vision : 62.38
confidence : 29.38
blocking : 6
throwing : 8
catching : 101.38 (+19)
carrying : 26
tackling : 8
kicking : 8
punting : 8

Top SA Tree: | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
Bottom SA Tree: | 9(+1) | 9(+1) | 6(+1) | 1(+1) | 2(+7) |
Additional SA Tree: | 7 | Catch Fake

Dusty... I'm a little confused. Your thread topic, and again said in your opening statement... is you're asking about a Possession WR. But the build arch you have listed (position for dot) is speedster arch. On purpose or mistake?

Originally posted by Theo Wizzago
Dusty... I'm a little confused. Your thread topic, and again said in your opening statement... is you're asking about a Possession WR. But the build arch you have listed (position for dot) is speedster arch. On purpose or mistake?

He's going for a Possession role, from the Speedster archy. 128+ speed combined with 120+ catching.

What you might want to try is, after you get out of Agility, hit Vision 4th and only 1-cap it, then hit Stam next and 1-cap that. That way they will grow into the low to mid 50s. Some would advocate for more Carry, but you should be ok with that high Catching score. Out right fumbles would be the only issue. That would leave Jumping for last but by then you could put it exactly where you want it... whether that's a 6-cap like you've got, or maybe stepping down to a 5-cap to save some SPs.

For SAs, it's weird not seeing Sticky Hands on a possession guy. I know it's red, but you probably want some. I'm not sure 1st Step is worth that investment with only 130 Speed.

Don't forget your CEQ bonuses. Assuming you're going for a pair of 5% CB, you might want to consider maybe, giving up that 1.5% extra, and go with your CEQ in CB% (21% v. 22.5%). You could then get a piece of Sticky Hands AEQ for cheap. A red 10 is still about an 8.

just some things to think about

Originally posted by Theo Wizzago
Dusty... I'm a little confused. Your thread topic, and again said in your opening statement... is you're asking about a Possession WR. But the build arch you have listed (position for dot) is speedster arch. On purpose or mistake?

I went with speedster because it has speed/agility/catching/vision all as majors. Whereas I think the possession arch has speed as a minor. I wanted the ALG benefits in speed.

And TJ, thanks for the advice. I wasn't 100% set on what I wanted to do AEQ wise.
My thought on the FS/CD is to make up for his lower speed. I want this dot to be running on creative and using jukes/head fakes etc to get open during a short curl route or something like that. Again, I've never made this style of WR (or any for that matter).

So all advice helps appreciate it.

Originally posted by Dustin.

My thought on the FS/CD is to make up for his lower speed. I want this dot to be running on creative and using jukes/head fakes etc to get open during a short curl route or something like that.

CD is a great idea for that, but 1st Step (for the most part) only activates at the snap. Speedsters use it to try to smoke a slower CB off the line. During a route, it's not likely that you'll slow down enough to have it fire again.

Maybe go 4/8/8/2/4 or something like that on the lower tree. I just think those top end points in FS could be better spent elsewhere. If you could swing a 2/4/0/0/0 in the top tree, you'd be set.

I really want him to have 10 juke/HF/CF but I wasn't able to make that happen. I'll try and lower FS then and use the points elsewhere.

I wouldn't bother trying to fine to to the level of detail in the VPB tho.

Just keep it in mind as the dot grows.

Originally posted by Dustin.
I went with speedster because it has speed/agility/catching/vision all as majors. Whereas I think the possession arch has speed as a minor. I wanted the ALG benefits in speed.

And TJ, thanks for the advice. I wasn't 100% set on what I wanted to do AEQ wise.
My thought on the FS/CD is to make up for his lower speed. I want this dot to be running on creative and using jukes/head fakes etc to get open during a short curl route or something like that. Again, I've never made this style of WR (or any for that matter).

So all advice helps appreciate it.

No argument here except for saying I usually don't worry if speed is a minor. I think it is for a Power WR also. But when I build them (which is seldom anymore), I simply attacked the build the same as a Speed WR except for to stop putting SP's into speed once it got to 88-ish (rather than the usual 90+ most go for)... knowing I'd end up with a lower speed dot (138 with eq) at the end, but really needing at least that much speed to be an effective receiver. With possession WR, I might be more inclined to do what you did though as I feel (imo) that speed is still much needed for that kind of build. I guess, when it comes to the possession arch, there's really 2 schools of thought. Build the "slot receiver" (speed a must), or build the "pure possession only" receiver (tall, big, jump, lotsa catching... glorified TE at WR).

That all said, now knowing what you have in mind, you could still sacrifice a little catching and have a great "possession" WR. I've seen guys build catching into the 100's... but haven't really seen enough of a difference between that and a high 80's catching to make me believe the SP's and training spent on catching is worth what you lose elsewhere. MY Power WR had a catching of 88 and very seldom ever dropped a pass. Mostly (I believe) because he was as tall and big as I could go... with plenty of jumping and the SA's and VA's that help with catching (also had 80 strength and much more carry than your current build goals). So, if you only took catching to around 95 with 5 more coming from eq (for a total of 100), you could use those saved SP's and training to bump up... say, carrying? A guy that can't outrun the coverage is going to deal with KL's and fumble causing defenders more than a true speed burner. Just some thoughts. TJ's advice is also solid. And others might weigh in with even more (and better) ideas. Good luck!

don't you need more vision?

138 agility for a slot

Thanks Theo, I might play around some more in the VPB and try going the direction you mentioned, stronger and more carrying.

As for vision, I don't see the benefit to having more than I got. If anyone wants to prove me wrong go for it, but I think most would agree I have enough?

Originally posted by buckets99
don't you need more vision?

I'm willing to bet that 62 vision is a plenty adequate for a receiver. Some builds are going much lower (vision) than that with little, if any, detriment to the performance of the dot.

Originally posted by Theo Wizzago
I'm willing to bet that 62 vision is a plenty adequate for a receiver. Some builds are going much lower (vision) than that with little, if any, detriment to the performance of the dot.

is Vision not important for getting catch fake to fire, and in-route jukes?

Originally posted by Bane
is Vision not important for getting catch fake to fire, and in-route jukes?

Probably... but I don't think that having more than somewhere between 55-70 makes a significant difference. Maybe someone else has some stats that prove that assumption wrong, but I don't notice a huge difference in the firing numbers if the vision is in that range as opposed to having an 80+ vision.

no one mentioned 80+ Vision , you mentioned lower than 62 Vision and stated it has "little, if any, detriment to the performance of the dot" , so I expected you to have stats that proved that assumption