Warrior General Games

the main problem right now is that the cost to upgrade advanced equipment to make it worthwhile is too expensive...mainly in terms of time. You have to train on intense exclusively for two full seasons pretty much for three upgrades.

Given the time it takes, I really think you need a bigger upgrade for advanced equipment (since realistically you can't upgrade it all fast enough, the upgrade needs to be bigger just to make it a legitimate option compared to regular equipment).

Or, there are other ideas presented to make it worthwhile -- combining it to regular equipment, adding new slots, crafting it together, etc.

But as of right now, I don't see any of my players wearing more than 1 piece of this, as I know I can upgrade that once a season, and it has to be from a very good starting point to make it useful.

I don't want to have to read through everything, but if this has been discussed, sorry for the repeat.

I don't like the idea of having to use a token, just to see what's in the store. How about if you don't like what is in the store, you can spend a token and generate different choices. Or, I like this idea better, you don't need to spend anything to look. However after you buy something, you can spend tokens on a game of chance that has the possibility of upgrading your item or downgrading your item, ala the RPG Fate. When I read the whole idea of tapping into the RPG roots, this is what I had envisioned. Also, in the game of Fate, you can take your ordinary equipment and play that same game of chance with it. To me, this seems like a much better way to spend shopping tokens than to have to spend them simply to browse.

Edit: Also, in the game of Fate, when you play this game of chance, the risk/reward ratio gets higher with each level you achieve.

Originally posted by Hrbek1B
I don't want to have to read through everything, but if this has been discussed, sorry for the repeat.

I don't like the idea of having to use a token, just to see what's in the store. How about if you don't like what is in the store, you can spend a token and generate different choices. Or, I like this idea better, you don't need to spend anything to look. However after you buy something, you can spend tokens on a game of chance that has the possibility of upgrading your item or downgrading your item, ala the RPG Fate. When I read the whole idea of tapping into the RPG roots, this is what I had envisioned. Also, in the game of Fate, you can take your ordinary equipment and play that same game of chance with it. To me, this seems like a much better way to spend shopping tokens than to have to spend them simply to browse.

Edit: Also, in the game of Fate, when you play this game of chance, the risk/reward ratio gets higher with each level you achieve.

What about something like I suggested?

Originally posted by Anarcho
A suggestion I made in another thread:

I think the advanced equipment should be viewable without spending tokens.

The store should start out with only 1 item. At rollover, another item is randomly generated in its place.

Where do tokens come into play? Well, you can trade in a shopping token to open up another item slot in the store. One token means that you get 2 items to show up. At rollover, two new items are randomly generated in their place. You can keep using tokens to open up more item slots (maybe make a cap of somewhere between 5 and 10). Also, you can use a token to refresh all of the item slots available instead of waiting for rollover.

Well what if I like an item but don't have the money, if a new item is generated at rollover, I'll be screwed! Well, there could be a "hold" button or checkbox that you can select on the item(s) you like. It will prevent that item slot from randomly generating at rollover.

For example, I have 5 item slots available. I like 1 of the items, but I want to see if I can maybe get something better without losing the item I like. I simply check the "hold" button on the item I like and just the 4 other items not "held" will be randomly generated.

I think a system like this will encourage people to log in more often (you have to check the items once a day or put something on hold, otherwise it's gone) and it'll give way more incentive to using tokens.

As is, people are concerned about wasting the token to have 3 items generated that do them no good. In my proposed system, they wouldn't have to waste tokens at all. They'd still get the 1 item per day without using tokens ever. If they want an advanced item, they can spend some tokens to up their chances of getting something good without the hesitation of wasting tokens on a 1 time generation of items that could be for another position.

This way, even if crap items generate, you wouldn't have wasted any tokens on them, just the item slots that are open.

Originally posted by Mr. Moses
Rather than having the advanced equipment fill the same slots as the old ones so that we choose between the items, I'd rather see new slots and make the equipment stackable. Rather than shirts & shoes... Helmets, Shoulder Pads, etc..

Then equipment gets to be too powerful and too much of a determiner of how good you are. If we have 4 more slots, that means each slot could add an additional 3 or 4 more points to your player.

At level 32:
Regular equipment: +5 * 4 slots = 20
Additional stack slots: (i.e.) +4 * 4 more slots = 16

Now we have a potential for +36 from equipment, which is too much.

Originally posted by Anarcho

A suggestion I made in another thread:

I think the advanced equipment should be viewable without spending tokens.

The store should start out with only 1 item. At rollover, another item is randomly generated in its place.

Where do tokens come into play? Well, you can trade in a shopping token to open up another item slot in the store. One token means that you get 2 items to show up. At rollover, two new items are randomly generated in their place. You can keep using tokens to open up more item slots (maybe make a cap of somewhere between 5 and 10). Also, you can use a token to refresh all of the item slots available instead of waiting for rollover.

Well what if I like an item but don't have the money, if a new item is generated at rollover, I'll be screwed! Well, there could be a "hold" button or checkbox that you can select on the item(s) you like. It will prevent that item slot from randomly generating at rollover.

For example, I have 5 item slots available. I like 1 of the items, but I want to see if I can maybe get something better without losing the item I like. I simply check the "hold" button on the item I like and just the 4 other items not "held" will be randomly generated.

I think a system like this will encourage people to log in more often (you have to check the items once a day or put something on hold, otherwise it's gone) and it'll give way more incentive to using tokens.

As is, people are concerned about wasting the token to have 3 items generated that do them no good. In my proposed system, they wouldn't have to waste tokens at all. They'd still get the 1 item per day without using tokens ever. If they want an advanced item, they can spend some tokens to up their chances of getting something good without the hesitation of wasting tokens on a 1 time generation of items that could be for another position.

This way, even if crap items generate, you wouldn't have wasted any tokens on them, just the item slots that are open.

You could end up with way too many slots way too quick...if you normal train for just 5 or 6 days (seems entirely reasonable) now you have 6-7 slots. It would have to require several tokens to add another slot or something.

So is the advanced equipment only for one game? Or do you keep it?:S I confused about this part..

Originally posted by Bort
Originally posted by Mr. Moses

Rather than having the advanced equipment fill the same slots as the old ones so that we choose between the items, I'd rather see new slots and make the equipment stackable. Rather than shirts & shoes... Helmets, Shoulder Pads, etc..

Then equipment gets to be too powerful and too much of a determiner of how good you are. If we have 4 more slots, that means each slot could add an additional 3 or 4 more points to your player.

At level 32:
Regular equipment: +5 * 4 slots = 20
Additional stack slots: (i.e.) +4 * 4 more slots = 16

Now we have a potential for +36 from equipment, which is too much.

Bort -- given the time/cost to actually improve even 1 piece of advanced equipment, why not just allow the equipment to level up based on the original piece.

ex. I buy a piece for my K with +1 vision/+1 big boot (i have this in my store). Whatever level this shows up on, it can't be upgraded until the next available level. But when you pay the 10 bonus tokens & $$$$ to upgrade it, it changes to +2 vision/+2 big boot (or you could make it more flexible if you wanted to).

Given the cost to upgrade these items, I don't think it would end up being too powerful, since the odds are most people would go with 1 piece that they could upgrade once per season, while some might try to build it for their entire character by saving up all their bonus tokens.

I think the key is that bonus tokens have another important use (4 = 1 SP and a +5 boost to your next game for an attribute), which makes the current system seem like a waste of BT's vs. an actual option.

Originally posted by Bort
Originally posted by Anarcho


A suggestion I made in another thread:

I think the advanced equipment should be viewable without spending tokens.

The store should start out with only 1 item. At rollover, another item is randomly generated in its place.

Where do tokens come into play? Well, you can trade in a shopping token to open up another item slot in the store. One token means that you get 2 items to show up. At rollover, two new items are randomly generated in their place. You can keep using tokens to open up more item slots (maybe make a cap of somewhere between 5 and 10). Also, you can use a token to refresh all of the item slots available instead of waiting for rollover.

Well what if I like an item but don't have the money, if a new item is generated at rollover, I'll be screwed! Well, there could be a "hold" button or checkbox that you can select on the item(s) you like. It will prevent that item slot from randomly generating at rollover.

For example, I have 5 item slots available. I like 1 of the items, but I want to see if I can maybe get something better without losing the item I like. I simply check the "hold" button on the item I like and just the 4 other items not "held" will be randomly generated.

I think a system like this will encourage people to log in more often (you have to check the items once a day or put something on hold, otherwise it's gone) and it'll give way more incentive to using tokens.

As is, people are concerned about wasting the token to have 3 items generated that do them no good. In my proposed system, they wouldn't have to waste tokens at all. They'd still get the 1 item per day without using tokens ever. If they want an advanced item, they can spend some tokens to up their chances of getting something good without the hesitation of wasting tokens on a 1 time generation of items that could be for another position.

This way, even if crap items generate, you wouldn't have wasted any tokens on them, just the item slots that are open.

You could end up with way too many slots way too quick...if you normal train for just 5 or 6 days (seems entirely reasonable) now you have 6-7 slots. It would have to require several tokens to add another slot or something.


I agree with the numbers aspect, but what do you think about the idea in general?

You could always tweak the amount of tokens required. You could do 3-5 tokens per slot, or you could do a token to item slot ratio (i.e. 1 token to open the first slot, 2 tokens for the second slot, 3 for the third, etc.)

Why don't you just add a new slot, like with customs, where you can put your advanced equipment. That way players could own more than 1 advanced equipment, but only play with one at a time. This would allow 6 slots for equipment (head, hands, body, feet, custom, and advanced). It would be fair for everyone, and would also make the advanced equipment useful.

Originally posted by SCACE
Originally posted by Bort

Originally posted by Mr. Moses


Rather than having the advanced equipment fill the same slots as the old ones so that we choose between the items, I'd rather see new slots and make the equipment stackable. Rather than shirts & shoes... Helmets, Shoulder Pads, etc..

Then equipment gets to be too powerful and too much of a determiner of how good you are. If we have 4 more slots, that means each slot could add an additional 3 or 4 more points to your player.

At level 32:
Regular equipment: +5 * 4 slots = 20
Additional stack slots: (i.e.) +4 * 4 more slots = 16

Now we have a potential for +36 from equipment, which is too much.

Bort -- given the time/cost to actually improve even 1 piece of advanced equipment, why not just allow the equipment to level up based on the original piece.

ex. I buy a piece for my K with +1 vision/+1 big boot (i have this in my store). Whatever level this shows up on, it can't be upgraded until the next available level. But when you pay the 10 bonus tokens & $$$$ to upgrade it, it changes to +2 vision/+2 big boot (or you could make it more flexible if you wanted to).

Given the cost to upgrade these items, I don't think it would end up being too powerful, since the odds are most people would go with 1 piece that they could upgrade once per season, while some might try to build it for their entire character by saving up all their bonus tokens.

I think the key is that bonus tokens have another important use (4 = 1 SP and a +5 boost to your next game for an attribute), which makes the current system seem like a waste of BT's vs. an actual option.

I think I mentioned in another thread that I think that it's not a bad idea, basically adding a +1 to each special thing the item has when you upgrade it.

Seeing people's posts about their strategy for the equipment has given me some ideas as far as the way in which it will probably be used, and I think that method is probably pretty good.

so my 4 bps for an upgrade was shot down very quickly, but i've redone my math and i'll explain my reasoning

from what i've seen so far, the cool parts of the adv equipment are supposed to equate to roughly a sp (please correct me if i'm wrong bort) based on the fact that some of the bonuses are in fact simply 1 sp, (like a basic item but +1 jumping)
now, i can EITHER, spend 30 bps at level 24 to have a piece of equipment that is 3 points better than a normal one
OR, spend 30 bps on +7 to 1 stat permanently (with 2 bps left over)

thats my math bort, it just doesnt wash for it to be 10 bps for an upgrade, its simply uneconomical from the players point of view... completely

Originally posted by Anarcho

I agree with the numbers aspect, but what do you think about the idea in general?

You could always tweak the amount of tokens required. You could do 3-5 tokens per slot, or you could do a token to item slot ratio (i.e. 1 token to open the first slot, 2 tokens for the second slot, 3 for the third, etc.)



It's not bad at all, in general. A gradated scale might work well (1 for first slot, 2 for second, 4 for third, etc)

Originally posted by Bort
Originally posted by Mr. Moses

Rather than having the advanced equipment fill the same slots as the old ones so that we choose between the items, I'd rather see new slots and make the equipment stackable. Rather than shirts & shoes... Helmets, Shoulder Pads, etc..

Then equipment gets to be too powerful and too much of a determiner of how good you are. If we have 4 more slots, that means each slot could add an additional 3 or 4 more points to your player.

At level 32:
Regular equipment: +5 * 4 slots = 20
Additional stack slots: (i.e.) +4 * 4 more slots = 16

Now we have a potential for +36 from equipment, which is too much.

Couldnt it just be a combination of the current upgrade system and adding internal slots on existing areas.. or at least giving the upgrades names

ie, Body Area has:
Basic Colored Shirt
upgrade 1 = shoulder pads
upgrade 2 = team logo
upgrade 3 = player number (maybe customiseable)
upgrade 4 = improved basic shirt material
etc..

Feet area:
Basic Colored Cleat
upgrade 1 = colored laces
upgrade 2 = simple metal studs
etc

Im just talking simple images added to the existing eq thumbnails to make them look upgraded ..

Originally posted by flynn
so my 4 bps for an upgrade was shot down very quickly, but i've redone my math and i'll explain my reasoning

from what i've seen so far, the cool parts of the adv equipment are supposed to equate to roughly a sp (please correct me if i'm wrong bort) based on the fact that some of the bonuses are in fact simply 1 sp, (like a basic item but +1 jumping)
now, i can EITHER, spend 30 bps at level 24 to have a piece of equipment that is 3 points better than a normal one
OR, spend 30 bps on +7 to 1 stat permanently (with 2 bps left over)

thats my math bort, it just doesnt wash for it to be 10 bps for an upgrade, its simply uneconomical from the players point of view... completely

It's not +7 to 1 stat permanently. It's 1 SP, which could be only +1 or +2 stats depending on your player and how far he's progressed past the soft caps.

I think if the special parts upgraded as well with your 10 BT's it would be fairly worthwhile.

I think given the cost of the equipment + the other positive use of bonus tokens (and the fact that not everyone will be able to train on intense all season (and other than the increased attribute training flexibility offered of normal, I presume there will be more activities available at some point on normal to keep both training options as a true choice) that the +1 to everyone on a piece is the best way.

Now, depending on how many +1's you are getting should affect the $$$ cost, just like it does when you have to buy the equipment initially - though I'm sure you've already thought of that