Warrior General Games

Originally posted by coach
Originally posted by Bort

Originally posted by coach


The "range" is determined by the HB's vision, correct?

So a HB with higher vision is more likely to waste his fake on a player who is too far away to make the play anyway, right?


No, it's based on the defender's tackle ability, actually. It's more like the QB vision checks, where you get a vision check for each guy who's coming into tackle range, to see if you can "see" him.

What? So if a guy is a good enough tackler, he's invisible? Please tell me I'm reading that wrong...

I hope not :/

Originally posted by j10er
Originally posted by Bort

Originally posted by j10er


Originally posted by Bort



If the carrier sees the defender ready to tackle, he gets to try and fake him.

So, with the new system, does that mean there are more vision checks involved?

No, same as before.

Bad phrasing on my part. I didn't mean that the mechanics changed.

RB sees Tackler A and performs a successful juke.

In the old system, Tackler A, B, C and D fell for the juke. But now, only Tackler A does.

Which means the RB now has to perform a successful vision check on Tackler B in order to see him. And, if successful, then C. Etc., etc.

So, it's not more intentional vision checks, but, because only one defender can get faked out per tick, more vision checks are ultimately made.

Sound right?

Yeah, I get it now. It's not the same. In the old system, you'd still have to make your rolls vs A,B,C, and D. Now you make them on separate ticks, instead of 4 in a row on the same tick.

Originally posted by todd_terps_62
I think the point is, that guys with Elusive backs (and owners dependent on them) want a constant stream of juking the guy nearest the HB, thus making it so NO ONE can ever tackle them.

The rest of us want something a bit closer to reality.

LOL seriously.

Originally posted by Bort
Originally posted by Adderfist

Originally posted by Bort


Originally posted by PackMan97



Originally posted by wombat killer




Why do you say "because the biggest threat won't get faked"?

I think Bort meant "biggest threat" as in the guy with the best build. I imagine there is some code that a ball carrier uses to rank the threats to run away from. I have two guys in front of me, which one do I want to cut toward? The guy that is the worst tackler/player.

Probably something like the pass coverage code, where the QB tries to avoid the guys that are covered by the best CBs.

Yeah, it's likely that the "biggest threat" is going to be the guy least likely to get faked out. You might as well fake out some other guys if you can, and try to get away from him instead, no?

No. Faking out someone else 8 yards down the field and getting tackled by the 'biggest threat' one yard in front of you doesn't help at all.

That situation is pretty unlikely, since the biggest threat guy is more in a position to tackle you and acting sooner. It's more likely you tried to fake the biggest threat and failed (like I'm saying), while the guy 8 yards down field fell for it.

The question isn't "should I fake the guy 8 yards away vs the guy 1 yard away." It's: "There are 2 guys 3 yards away. Which one do I try to fake out first?"

So you fake everyone, but the one who shrinks is the biggest threat who failed his roll?

Originally posted by Bort
Fakes happen when a defender is getting in position to try and make a tackle, and its in a fairly random order as to who gets picked first amongst those in range, based on which defender is acting first against the carrier.

"which defender is acting first against the carrier" = biggest threat IMO.

Not sure where "fairly random order" fits in if it's "based on which defender is acting first against the carrier"... but we can accept the unnecessarily fuzzy description.

Perhaps there can be some sort of differential range where players can juke more than 1 player per tick... for if a defender rolls VERY pooly or the ball carrier rolls VERY well. So anytime a ball carrier rolls 50+ (totally arbitrary) higher than the defender, the defender fails, regardless of whether or not another player fails, and his fail does not count toward the single fail-per-tick limit.

i.e.,
Play1 - HB rolls 95, Def1 rolls 60, Def2 rolls 90, Def3 rolls 20. -> All defenders failed the check. Def1 (differential 35) and Def3 faked (differential 75). Def2 is not faked because Def1 was the one faked player. (Def2 doesn't count because he was blown out of the water.)

Play2 - HB rolls 65, Def1 rolls 60, Def2 rolls 90, Def3 rolls 20. -> Def1 (differential 5) OR Def3 (differential 45) is faked. Def2 is not faked because he passed the check.

Thoughts?

Originally posted by Adderfist
Originally posted by coach

Originally posted by Bort


Originally posted by coach



The "range" is determined by the HB's vision, correct?

So a HB with higher vision is more likely to waste his fake on a player who is too far away to make the play anyway, right?


No, it's based on the defender's tackle ability, actually. It's more like the QB vision checks, where you get a vision check for each guy who's coming into tackle range, to see if you can "see" him.

What? So if a guy is a good enough tackler, he's invisible? Please tell me I'm reading that wrong...

I hope not :/

How did you get that?

If he's a better tackler, he has a bigger range of tackling you, and thus becomes a threat sooner.

Originally posted by Bort
Originally posted by Adderfist

Originally posted by Bort


Originally posted by PackMan97



Originally posted by wombat killer




Why do you say "because the biggest threat won't get faked"?

I think Bort meant "biggest threat" as in the guy with the best build. I imagine there is some code that a ball carrier uses to rank the threats to run away from. I have two guys in front of me, which one do I want to cut toward? The guy that is the worst tackler/player.

Probably something like the pass coverage code, where the QB tries to avoid the guys that are covered by the best CBs.

Yeah, it's likely that the "biggest threat" is going to be the guy least likely to get faked out. You might as well fake out some other guys if you can, and try to get away from him instead, no?

No. Faking out someone else 8 yards down the field and getting tackled by the 'biggest threat' one yard in front of you doesn't help at all.

That situation is pretty unlikely, since the biggest threat guy is more in a position to tackle you and acting sooner. It's more likely you tried to fake the biggest threat and failed (like I'm saying), while the guy 8 yards down field fell for it.

The question isn't "should I fake the guy 8 yards away vs the guy 1 yard away." It's: "There are 2 guys 3 yards away. Which one do I try to fake out first?"

The one closest to the sideline.

Edit: Thanks for answering everything bort, makes a big difference.

Originally posted by snoridr16
Originally posted by Bort

Fakes happen when a defender is getting in position to try and make a tackle, and its in a fairly random order as to who gets picked first amongst those in range, based on which defender is acting first against the carrier.

"which defender is acting first against the carrier" = biggest threat IMO.

Not sure where "fairly random order" fits in if it's "based on which defender is acting first against the carrier"... but we can accept the unnecessarily fuzzy description.

Perhaps there can be some sort of differential range where players can juke more than 1 player per tick... for if a defender rolls VERY pooly or the ball carrier rolls VERY well. So anytime a ball carrier rolls 50+ (totally arbitrary) higher than the defender, the defender fails, regardless of whether or not another player fails, and his fail does not count toward the single fail-per-tick limit.

i.e.,
Play1 - HB rolls 95, Def1 rolls 60, Def2 rolls 90, Def3 rolls 20. -> All defenders failed the check. Def1 (differential 35) and Def3 faked (differential 75). Def2 is not faked because Def1 was the one faked player. (Def2 doesn't count because he was blown out of the water.)

Play2 - HB rolls 65, Def1 rolls 60, Def2 rolls 90, Def3 rolls 20. -> Def1 (differential 5) OR Def3 (differential 45) is faked. Def2 is not faked because he passed the check.

Thoughts?


Like a "critical hit" fake or something?

Originally posted by DL24
Originally posted by DL24

Originally posted by Bort


Originally posted by TyrannyVaunt




Bort, I am not seeing HB's move to guy A if guy B was faked on tick 2, 3, 4, etc...
Did you change the values of the rolls required to carryout a fake element? Or did you change the bonus from any of the SA's?

Nope.

So, to clarify; you changed nothing other than the ability to fake out more than one defender per tick?



Yup, literally wrapping the fake block in a "if (has_faked_this_tick)"

Originally posted by j10er
Originally posted by Bort

If the carrier sees the defender ready to tackle, he gets to try and fake him.

So, with the new system, does that mean there are more vision checks involved?

LOL at guys who thought Vision for a HB was bad.

Originally posted by Bort
How did you get that?

If he's a better tackler, he has a bigger range of tackling you, and thus becomes a threat sooner.

So...a player with zero tackling is invisible?

Isn't that counter-productive?

Also, LOL @ the people who were saying tackling helps against elusives.

Originally posted by TyrannyVaunt
Originally posted by j10er

Originally posted by Bort


If the carrier sees the defender ready to tackle, he gets to try and fake him.

So, with the new system, does that mean there are more vision checks involved?

LOL at guys who thought Vision for a HB was bad.

well it does seem like it would be less valueable for a power back than an elusive back

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=611797&pbp_id=2895162

The above link is from game 1 vs the current top HB in my league. My team won and this HB juked and faked us but I found that keeping a player directly in the path of the HB was good enough to stop him most the time. The juke seemed to hurt the most when a player was chasing or closing in from the side. I could be wrong.

Cover 2 helps prevent the big burn. I think lots of aggressive DPC plays helped the juking HBs also.

Originally posted by Deathblade
Originally posted by Bort

How did you get that?

If he's a better tackler, he has a bigger range of tackling you, and thus becomes a threat sooner.

So...a player with zero tackling is invisible?

Isn't that counter-productive?

Also, LOL @ the people who were saying tackling helps against elusives.

There's a min radius, d00d. The range of allowed tackling distances is also fairly small, but it does vary a bit between a min and max range.