Warrior General Games

Originally posted by TrevJo
I don't know how to say this more nicely, but in all honesty, if you think your player is in the category of the others, it's no wonder you don't believe in it.

Umm... I got more career TD's Than Dooley.... At 45th level... He is 67th Lvl. Well I guess they just don't make them like they used to.

The point is that we are talking about the "X-Factor". I said my RB was probably and example of what people thought was an X-Factor.

You said I was just average, and if that is the case, then Dooley, is not an example of the X-Factor, because he with 4 more seasons than me has less touchdowns, and only a season's worth of yards.

My point was there is no X-Factor, your point was that Dooley was the example of an X-Factor. Ipso facto, if I have more TD's than him, then I MUST have a higher X-Factor.

Are you willing to take that position? I am guessing not.

Originally posted by Cryptotich
So that means there are no X-Factor players below the "pro" level, or we just don't talk about them?

And for the Record, check Dooley's record against THL's. Dooley has 13 league leading stats, THL has 9. And he is 5 season's younger and 12 levels below. THL has 336 TD's, Dooley has 335, THL has 18,255 yards, Dooley has 21,817 yards.

I think you might need to re-calibrate what you think an X-Factor is. Personally I don't believe in it.





With all due respect, it just doesn't sound like you've read the important parts of this thread

Originally posted by Cryptotich
My point was there is no X-Factor

Apparently you missed this whole thread, good job.

Originally posted by Cryptotich
if I have more TD's than him, then I MUST have a higher X-Factor.

No, that logic does not follow.

Originally posted by Cryptotich
You said I was just average

No, I didn't. I don't think you know what you are talking about, we will just have to agree to disagree on this one. I'm not interested in anything more you have to say on the subject.

Originally posted by Cryptotich
Originally posted by BigDen

In my opinion, I think the test server people are giving information about Bort's mathematical builds. But also, Bort has given us some hints and tidbits as well. Such as confidence affecting longevity of being able to run at top speed, for one play, and throughout the game (with morale deductions), as well. Personally I think vision affects it a bit as well, when factoring speed. IMO, X-Factor is particular builds for each position, in what they are needed for (Possession Receiver vs. Speed Receiver) .

Since all test games are up for view, each game gives up a bit of information beyond what the original testing was for. You just have to look for it. The player builds are open to the public.

One thing I can guarantee, is that 30,000 people watching a test game, are going to find things that 15 of us will find.

But this attitute is what makes it hard for the average player.

If I want to find out if a CB with 1. 100 speed/ 80 agility 2. 90 speed/ 90 agility or 3. 80 speed and 100 agility does better. I need to spend hours watching games and looking at build.

If a tester wants to find the same thing that it just takes a few min to set up.

If there are "sweet spots" it is a lot easier to test for them than it is to watch random games and hope you see something. A lot easier to see something if you know what you are looking for.

Originally posted by Cryptotich
The best answer I can give you based on 6 seasons of GM knowledge of player builds, is that there are certain players who do seem to do better than others who are "around" the same attributes. The difference's are minor but they are there. There is also the simple fact that you can not "Re-Create" the exact same circumstances for both players. Every down and distance, provides both a unique combination of Offensive players, it also gives a unique combination of Defensive players. Aside from the first play of the game, energy, stamina, confidence can all create different situations, which will produce different results each play. Not to mention failed vision rolls.

All these slight differences in players, morale, and energy create unique circumstances for a player to be in. For a WR, two equal players are running different routes against different DB's. For a RB, the O-line and D-Line are going to be different for every game.

So comparing 2 players of exactly the same build is impossible, because each play is unique. So they are not facing the exact same situations. Over time, the same set of probable situations will give one player a lift over the other.

I believe that is your X-Factor.







Well....the best I can say with 9+ seasons of GM and team ownership experience from casual to minor leagues to A through World League, with OC and DC experience on mutiple championship franchises, and with around 200 of my own players with multiple players at every position in game....

....is that without any question at all, with absolutely no room for reasonable dispute, with incontrovertible evidence, there have been some players who vastly outperform others for no explicable reason (until now).

As to whether the weight fix changes this, we will have to see.

Oh yeah...and Johnny Tso (a season 3 day zero player) has 32,000+ career yards and 641 TDs...and he is *not* better than Garrett Dooley (nor does he have the x-factor, just a pretty awesome o-line and a good build).

Originally posted by Cryptotich
The point is that we are talking about the "X-Factor". I said my RB was probably and example of what people thought was an X-Factor.

You said I was just average, and if that is the case, then Dooley, is not an example of the X-Factor, because he with 4 more seasons than me has less touchdowns, and only a season's worth of yards.

My point was there is no X-Factor, your point was that Dooley was the example of an X-Factor. Ipso facto, if I have more TD's than him, then I MUST have a higher X-Factor.

Are you willing to take that position? I am guessing not.

Why this futile arguments ? The OP includes the perfect example with PT players. There is a proposed fix (by Bort) and we are just waiting to see what happens next.

Originally posted by Cryptotich
The point is that we are talking about the "X-Factor". I said my RB was probably and example of what people thought was an X-Factor.

You said I was just average, and if that is the case, then Dooley, is not an example of the X-Factor, because he with 4 more seasons than me has less touchdowns, and only a season's worth of yards.

My point was there is no X-Factor, your point was that Dooley was the example of an X-Factor. Ipso facto, if I have more TD's than him, then I MUST have a higher X-Factor.

Are you willing to take that position? I am guessing not.

just because you have more yards and td doesn't mean your guy is better... it purely means that you played crap competition.

one thing you fail to realize is that when dooley was raising in lvl, he was playing top competition most of the time and there wasn't slow build projects and gut jobs like there are today.

Just last season, you had 3 crap teams you played that accounted for nearly 1,500 yards. that is NOT x factor. it is exactly what taut was talking about.

a decent build, w/ a good offensive line and crap competition.

Originally posted by tragula
Why this futile arguments ? The OP includes the perfect example with PT players. There is a proposed fix (by Bort) and we are just waiting to see what happens next.


Its not futile, we can all make our arguments. If the whole deal was just a glitch in the Height/Weight code then that pretty much kills the X-Factor Idea.

Originally posted by tautology

Oh yeah...and Johnny Tso (a season 3 day zero player) has 32,000+ career yards and 641 TDs...and he is *not* better than Garrett Dooley (nor does he have the x-factor, just a pretty awesome o-line and a good build).


Johnny Tso is the 3/4th leading Rushing TD's and 4th leading yards rushing in the WORLD league. Yah he isn't better than Dooley. He has more yards and TD's, than Garrett. Even if you say you had an easier schedule, you are equal if not better.

Originally posted by Reficuul
just because you have more yards and td doesn't mean your guy is better... it purely means that you played crap competition.

one thing you fail to realize is that when dooley was raising in lvl, he was playing top competition most of the time and there wasn't slow build projects and gut jobs like there are today.

Just last season, you had 3 crap teams you played that accounted for nearly 1,500 yards. that is NOT x factor. it is exactly what taut was talking about.

a decent build, w/ a good offensive line and crap competition.

Are you saying that Dooley NEVER faced crap competition? This isn't an issue of weather or not THL is better than Dooley. This was about someone asserting that there was an X-Factor and then saying that THL didn't have it, and was just average. He brought up Dooley who is a 67th level toon, and I pointed out that I had more TD's than he had even though I was 22 levels below him.

Tautology brought up Johnny Tso, who has better stats than Dooley has. If there is an X-Factor, wouldn't both of these guys have it?

Originally posted by Cryptotich
Originally posted by Reficuul

just because you have more yards and td doesn't mean your guy is better... it purely means that you played crap competition.

one thing you fail to realize is that when dooley was raising in lvl, he was playing top competition most of the time and there wasn't slow build projects and gut jobs like there are today.

Just last season, you had 3 crap teams you played that accounted for nearly 1,500 yards. that is NOT x factor. it is exactly what taut was talking about.

a decent build, w/ a good offensive line and crap competition.

Are you saying that Dooley NEVER faced crap competition? This isn't an issue of weather or not THL is better than Dooley. This was about someone asserting that there was an X-Factor and then saying that THL didn't have it, and was just average. He brought up Dooley who is a 67th level toon, and I pointed out that I had more TD's than he had even though I was 22 levels below him.

Tautology brought up Johnny Tso, who has better stats than Dooley has. If there is an X-Factor, wouldn't both of these guys have it?


Hard to tell if you are just trolling, or if you really don't understand.....

Originally posted by tautology

Hard to tell if you are just trolling, or if you really don't understand.....


I think I might be missing the boat here. I thought this conversation was about the X-Factor. I brought up my toon who has been an MVP for the last 2 seasons strait, and was the Rushing leader, and TD leader in season 8.

Maybe I am crazy, but that seems like a toon that might have something going for him.

Or am I missing the boat?

Originally posted by Cryptotich
I think I might be missing the boat here. I thought this conversation was about the X-Factor. I brought up my toon who has been an MVP for the last 2 seasons strait, and was the Rushing leader, and TD leader in season 8.

Maybe I am crazy, but that seems like a toon that might have something going for him.

Or am I missing the boat?

It's the one with 'boat' in it.

Originally posted by SAINT615
It's the one with 'boat' in it.

Is your player doing about what you think he should do?
Is he doing more than other players with remarkably similar builds?
Does he go faster than players with similar speed?

This bug - or whatever - seems to be based on some guys being artificially heavier or lighter than they should be, thus allowing them to perform differently than their build would indicate they should.

If you have a HB with 68 speed and he's beating guys with 100 speed to the endzone, then, probably you had a guy effected by the x-factor bug. If you have a 68 speed guy running step for step with another 68 speed guy, then you probably weren't effected by the bug.

Likewise, if your 140 strength Center is getting reverse pancaked by a 110 str DT, you might be seeing the bug.

Other examples are out there, but seeing a guy do what you think he should do season after season is not indicative of the x-factor bug.

Originally posted by Cryptotich
Originally posted by tautology


Hard to tell if you are just trolling, or if you really don't understand.....


I think I might be missing the boat here. I thought this conversation was about the X-Factor. I brought up my toon who has been an MVP for the last 2 seasons strait, and was the Rushing leader, and TD leader in season 8.

Maybe I am crazy, but that seems like a toon that might have something going for him.

Or am I missing the boat?

It's not about some players being well built and playing on good teams, it's about some players being (for instance) significantly and measurably faster than others, despite having less speed, agility, stamina, confidence, carrying, strength,jumping, catching, First Step, Route Run, Quick Cut etc.

And not just a little faster, but 15% or more faster...and this additional speed understandably makes that player perform better, especially at WR or HB.

And Bort has announced a change that bears on this issue (in the Changelog).

It appears as though some players had a problem with their weight calculation, which would potentially explain why a WR with less speed, agility, stamina...everything...might be much faster than their attributes would suggest (because the sim thought they weighed 18 lbs instead of 180 lbs, for instance).

So...it's not just about dots that play well, it's about specific dots that do specific things in a quantitatively different way than other dots with similar or better attributes.