Warrior General Games

Originally posted by kurieg
I was making a play on the "pedestrian builder" phrase

We should all be building expert dots, not pedestrians







Still not funny

At least you're still trying....sometimes, VERY trying...

Step 1: New Training system is announced so people can understand the changes ahead of time.

Step 2: New Training system is simplified some due to complaints. Still considered too complicated by many who complain.

Step 3: Turns out the new training system is not as complicated as some thought.

Step 4 (current): Catch/Bort consider changing new training system again since its not complicated enough.

----
Tbh, I don't care if you keep it as is or change it. What I do ask though, is that a decision is made soon and that it's iron-clad. Step 1 was about giving the community fair warning, and if you keep changing stuff up between now when the new stuff roles out, that is not fair warning imo.

No matter what is done, I'm gonna use lolmath to find out what the best line for player growth is, and I'm gonna give that little build guide to my team and those I am associated with. No matter what you do, people will figure some stuff out. The thing is, the more complex the system is, and the harder it is to figure out/explain/use optimally or near-optimally, the bigger the gap will become between the average GLBer and better ones.

Originally posted by WiSeIVIaN
Step 1 was about giving the community fair warning, and if you keep changing stuff up between now when the new stuff roles out, that is not fair warning imo.



I believe they announced the Training Changes on April 15 (Just over a week into season 15), and made a few revisions over 5 days following the announcement. There have been none since, and there will likely not be anymore major changes. With that being said, you will have had over 3 weeks to have read and discussed the new changes before it is implemented.

How much more time do you need in order for it to be a "fair" warning?

Originally posted by droopy5069
I believe they announced the Training Changes on April 15 (Just over a week into season 15), and made a few revisions over 5 days following the announcement. There have been none since, and there will likely not be anymore major changes. With that being said, you will have had over 3 weeks to have read and discussed the new changes before it is implemented.

How much more time do you need in order for it to be a "fair" warning?

I guess you didn't see this?

http://goallineblitz.com/game/forum_thread.pl?thread_id=3978752&page=1#35529123

well to be fair, that was a discussion post and the numbers that were put up there are definitely not final - nor is the probable change. It just became obvious that there was an issue with these three points:

1) There isn't enough of a penalty to training on light
2) Training gains will be too large with the new system (in upwards of 50 SP's in some instances)
3) There is no incentive to train on normal - people will either train intense or light.

Something needs to be done about that, so discussion was commenced to see what people thought.

Currently this is what training looks like based on SP value for 100 days of training. The numbers in parentheses are what it would be if light = 40% of what normal currently is, normal = 85% of what normal currently is, and intense = 110% of what normal currently is. There was a deduction of 25 BT's for each 100 days of training to try and give a small approximation of normal BT spending (it could obviously be lower or higher depending on the player).

10 in attribute
Current Normal w/ extra = +53
Current Normal w/o extra = +56.98
Current Intense = +62.8
New Light = +62.67 (+44.12)
New Normal = +67.58 (+59.63)
New Intense = +72.5 (+64.55)
New 2 Att = +75.4 (+67.05)
New 3 Att = +78.35 (+69.21)
New 4 Att = +87.79 (+77.46)

20 in attribute
Current Normal w/ extra = +36
Current Normal w/o extra = +38.7
Current Intense = +46
New Light = +49.92 (+37.32)
New Normal = +50.58 (+45.18)
New Intense = +51.25 (+45.85)
New 2 Att = +53.08 (+47.41)
New 3 Att = +53.92 (+47.71)
New 4 Att = +60.17 (+53.15)

30 in attribute
Current Normal w/ extra = +25
Current Normal w/o extra = +26.88
Current Intense = +34.8
New Light = +41.67 (+32.92)
New Normal = +39.58 (+35.83)
New Intense = +37.5 (+33.75)
New 2 Att = +38.65 (+34.71)
New 3 Att = +38.1 (+33.79)
New 4 Att = +42.29 (+37.42)

40 in attribute
Current Normal w/ extra = +17
Current Normal w/o extra = +18.28
Current Intense = +26.8
New Light = +35.67 (+29.72)
New Normal = +31.58 (+29.03)
New Intense = +27.5 (+24.95)
New 2 Att = +28.15 (+25.47)
New 3 Att = +26.6 (+23.67)
New 4 Att = +29.29 (+25.98)

50 in attribute
Current Normal w/ extra = +11
Current Normal w/o extra = +11.83
Current Intense = +21.2
New Light = +31.17 (+27.32)
New Normal = +25.58 (+23.93)
New Intense = +20 (+18.35)
New 2 Att = +20.27 (+18.54)
New 3 Att = +17.98 (+16.08)
New 4 Att = +19.54 (+17.4)

60 in attribute
Current Normal w/ extra = +8
Current Normal w/o extra = +8.6
Current Intense = +18
New Light = +28.92 (+26.12)
New Normal = +22.58 (+21.38)
New Intense = +16.25 (+15.05)
New 2 Att = +16.33 (+15.07)
New 3 Att = +13.67 (+12.29)
New 4 Att = +14.67 (+13.11)

As you can see the gains in the new system are well above the current system so we want to try and bring the numbers down to make them a bit closer (with the new system still having a edge).

Also, in the new system, once an attribute gets to about 35, the pendulum swings very far towards only training on light. Light is not meant to be the only training option for the majority of a player's career so we need to penalize it more. Even with the penalty increased, it's still far and away the best option once a player gets to 50 in an attribute. Light is meant to be a strategic choice taken to earn bonus tokens with a minimal training gain not an automatic choice because it so far outweighs the others.

Normal also didn't have enough of an incentive to ever be used, so we want to increase it's value by reducing the difference in % gained between it and intense.

Again, this is just in discussion phase but wanted to point out the logic behind it being discussed (to be honest, the main reason it's being discussed is because of the conversation that took place in this thread and some pm's that I received).

If light and intense are balanced (in that each has its own place), then why not just throw out normal altogether? What benefit does having three options give us over two options?

Originally posted by Plankton
If light and intense are balanced (in that each has its own place), then why not just throw out normal altogether? What benefit does having three options give us over two options?

That is a possibility as well but the thought process behind normal was to give people a little bit of what intense and light have to offer (a middle ground if you will).

At http://goallineblitz.com/game/forum_thread.pl?thread_id=3978752&page=1#35529123 Staz refers to discussion "On the test server under the thread title Probable Revision to New Training". I can't find this thread on the Test Server Discussion forum. Can someone post a link for me, or is this a secret thread that only testers have access to?

Originally posted by Little M
At http://goallineblitz.com/game/forum_thread.pl?thread_id=3978752&page=1#35529123 Staz refers to discussion "On the test server under the thread title Probable Revision to New Training". I can't find this thread on the Test Server Discussion forum. Can someone post a link for me, or is this a secret thread that only testers have access to?

The thread is on the Test Server forum that only testers have access to.

Originally posted by Jethroz
Originally posted by Little M

At http://goallineblitz.com/game/forum_thread.pl?thread_id=3978752&page=1#35529123 Staz refers to discussion "On the test server under the thread title Probable Revision to New Training". I can't find this thread on the Test Server Discussion forum. Can someone post a link for me, or is this a secret thread that only testers have access to?

The thread is on the Test Server forum that only testers have access to.

Thanks for the reply.

Originally posted by Plankton
If light and intense are balanced (in that each has its own place), then why not just throw out normal altogether? What benefit does having three options give us over two options?

+1

Just standardize training gains already. It's really the easiest way to balance the training options.

We've come up with a revision to the training system - we'll be announcing the revision tomorrow. It's mostly following what is posted here:

http://goallineblitz.com/game/forum_thread.pl?thread_id=3969772&page=7#35541166

Originally posted by Catch22
We've come up with a revision to the training system - we'll be announcing the revision tomorrow. It's mostly following what is posted here:

http://goallineblitz.com/game/forum_thread.pl?thread_id=3969772&page=7#35541166

And then change it again, once people poke a bunch of holes that revision too...

Trying to balance a variable value vs a set value has failure written all over it. With set value across the board, the developers can then determine the value of the different choices and create a balance. Anything less will be a clusterfcuk.

Really, predicting what will happen before you make the decision is best, catch. Not just "getting a feel" of what will happen >_<