Warrior General Games

Originally posted by jdbolick
Originally posted by tdm13

It is if it's the only defensive pressure being put on a quarterback that coordinates an offense vastly overpowered to the defense.
No, it still wouldn't be true because O-line stupidity is not an appropriate means of addressing overpowered blocking. The appropriate fix would be to address the overpowered blocking, which Bort did as well. As others have noted, this flaw in the sim is far from the only way to get pressure on the QB, it's just one of the easiest. My own team was already having a lot of success getting sacks without this, and we'll presumably continue to do so if the speed boost or blocking angle are addressed to fix this particular problem.


I am also having a solid season with sacks and all that, but I still fear that the end result of this will be to nerf DE shed block boost and leave everything else. I am simply trying to say that 3 separate nerfs need to happen:

1.) Offense must be nerfed. Period
2.) Offensive lines must be nerfed to make it harder to pancake.
3.) D-Line must be nerfed to fix this teleporting through double teaming at the snap.

Originally posted by tdm13
Originally posted by jdbolick

Originally posted by tdm13


It is if it's the only defensive pressure being put on a quarterback that coordinates an offense vastly overpowered to the defense.
No, it still wouldn't be true because O-line stupidity is not an appropriate means of addressing overpowered blocking. The appropriate fix would be to address the overpowered blocking, which Bort did as well. As others have noted, this flaw in the sim is far from the only way to get pressure on the QB, it's just one of the easiest. My own team was already having a lot of success getting sacks without this, and we'll presumably continue to do so if the speed boost or blocking angle are addressed to fix this particular problem.


I am also having a solid season with sacks and all that, but I still fear that the end result of this will be to nerf DE shed block boost and leave everything else. I am simply trying to say that 3 separate nerfs need to happen:

1.) Offense must be nerfed. Period
2.) Offensive lines must be nerfed to make it harder to pancake.
3.) D-Line must be nerfed to fix this teleporting through double teaming at the snap.

No.
Agreeable.
There are better ways to do that. The updated blocking code seen from the test game I linked reduced the number of d-line shifted sacks to one.

Originally posted by tdm13
I am also having a solid season with sacks and all that, but I still fear that the end result of this will be to nerf DE shed block boost and leave everything else. I am simply trying to say that 3 separate nerfs need to happen:

1.) Offense must be nerfed. Period
2.) Offensive lines must be nerfed to make it harder to pancake.
3.) D-Line must be nerfed to fix this teleporting through double teaming at the snap.
I understand, but everything Bort can do to make the sim work properly is a step in the right direction, even if it temporarily gives the offense or defense an advantage. Any such advantage can be worked out later, but you don't want absurd things to continue just because they may balance out something else. Moreover, I'm not so sure that offenses must be nerfed in general. In pretty competitive conferences, my team has allowed 14.1 ppg this season and 15.9 ppg last season. We got the crap beat out of us when playing Drygerian, but I think that competition between two well coached "normal" teams results in a pretty realistic score.

Originally posted by jdbolick
Originally posted by tdm13

I am also having a solid season with sacks and all that, but I still fear that the end result of this will be to nerf DE shed block boost and leave everything else. I am simply trying to say that 3 separate nerfs need to happen:

1.) Offense must be nerfed. Period
2.) Offensive lines must be nerfed to make it harder to pancake.
3.) D-Line must be nerfed to fix this teleporting through double teaming at the snap.
I understand, but everything Bort can do to make the sim work properly is a step in the right direction, even if it temporarily gives the offense or defense an advantage. Any such advantage can be worked out later, but you don't want absurd things to continue just because they may balance out something else. Moreover, I'm not so sure that offenses must be nerfed in general. In pretty competitive conferences, my team has allowed 14.1 ppg this season and 15.9 ppg last season. We got the crap beat out of us when playing Drygerian, but I think that competition between two well coached "normal" teams results in a pretty realistic score.


Yes, but to the same testament, the top 2 teams in GLB (arguably) played to a 73-52 score. That is quite substantial, and I've seen many games in a shootout.

Originally posted by FBGProfessor
Right now there is definitely an exploit where teams stack the outside edge and Centers and sometimes Guards just sit there looking stupid. If the OL has enough vision, they should see these shifts and move to adjust. No Center walking to the line of scrimmage and seeing no one in front of him and scads of people on the edge would just hike the ball and stand still in the middle of the field. He would move to the overloaded side. The smart and the quicker and the better his vision, the better he would adjust.

If the defense has enough speed and agility they should succeed sometimes this way. But right now it is an exploit because it is overloaded.

yeah that's another example.

Related to that is the 2-man outside rush where the NT drops into coverage. The DEs bring amazing pressure for a 2 vs 5 matchup, and the Three Stooges just sit there in the middle while their QB gets terrorized.

Fixing this counts as a nerf according to Kurieg though.

Originally posted by tdm13


I am also having a solid season with sacks and all that, but I still fear that the end result of this will be to nerf DE shed block boost and leave everything else. I am simply trying to say that 3 separate nerfs need to happen:

1.) Offense must be nerfed. Period
2.) Offensive lines must be nerfed to make it harder to pancake.
3.) D-Line must be nerfed to fix this teleporting through double teaming at the snap.


#1 (offensive nerf in general)

Could you please explain where's the overpowered offense:

http://goallineblitz.com/game/league.pl?league_id=1&conference_id=2&playoffs=0

Cincinnati Shockers vs. Alpine Golfers 47-24 (#1 vs. #6)
Cleveland Buckeyes vs. Indianapolis Gurupies 10-75 (#15 vs. #3)
Richey Royals vs. ***Official*** Footballguys 10-78 (#13 vs. #2)
Washington Slashers vs. Northwest Arkansas Naturals 16-23 (#5 vs. #8)
Over The Rhine Red Dots vs. Columbus Woodys 24-20 (#6 vs. #10)
South Otto Fragile Porcelain Mice vs. Detroit Demon Lions 33-10 (#11 vs. #14)
Pittsburgh Steel vs. Washington Bullets 0-255 (CPU vs. #9)
New Jersey Blaze vs. Carolina Hammer 57-10 (#4 vs. #12)

Do we need more 3-7 or 0-3 games?

#2 (pancakes)
Agreed.

#3 (teleporting through double teams)
No question.

Originally posted by tdm13

1.) Offense must be nerfed. Period
2.) Offensive lines must be nerfed to make it harder to pancake.
3.) D-Line must be nerfed to fix this teleporting through double teaming at the snap.

1) It's really hard to say whether offense needs a nerf. Parity is too bad which makes analysis inherently difficult. There are some *aspects* of offense which need to be nerfed IMO, or rather the defense should be buffed. Off the top of my head I can say that short yardage is too easy to get. 3rd and short is just way easier than it should be, and the goalline defensive set is terribad. Stuff like that.

2) Yeah I think pancakes are too easy to get currently. But I think the game itself relies too much on pancakes. I'd rather see more "really good blocks" that are held, rather than knocking people down over and over.

3) The unintended shooting out of a cannon should stop, yeah.

Originally posted by fallingmercury
Off the top of my head I can say that short yardage is too easy to get. 3rd and short is just way easier than it should be, and the goalline defensive set is terribad. Stuff like that.
I really disagree with that part. I've stuffed and been stuffed so many times on 3rd or 4th & short in the last two seasons that it's affected my play-calling significantly. This used to be true, but things have really changed in my opinion. If you're predictable in those situations, I think a good DC will stop you for no gain or a loss about half the time. Of course that changes if you have an unstoppable beast at HB.

Originally posted by FBGProfessor

right now it is an exploit because it is overloaded

And the fact that offenses have no means of customizing and/or adjusting blocking assignments/protections which should be available as part of an OPC. DC's can create while OC's are confined to Bort's playbook and hard-coded blocking schemes. That's the flaw.

Originally posted by jdbolick
Originally posted by fallingmercury

Off the top of my head I can say that short yardage is too easy to get. 3rd and short is just way easier than it should be, and the goalline defensive set is terribad. Stuff like that.
I really disagree with that part. I've stuffed and been stuffed so many times on 3rd or 4th & short in the last two seasons that it's affected my play-calling significantly. This used to be true, but things have really changed in my opinion. If you're predictable in those situations, I think a good DC will stop you for no gain or a loss about half the time. Of course that changes if you have an unstoppable beast at HB.


I havent DCd in a little while so I'm a bit behind the times. It always seemed that a power back up the gut or that 3.5-yard quick out to a WR would get you the first-down very easily though.

Originally posted by RAPB
Originally posted by tdm13



I am also having a solid season with sacks and all that, but I still fear that the end result of this will be to nerf DE shed block boost and leave everything else. I am simply trying to say that 3 separate nerfs need to happen:

1.) Offense must be nerfed. Period
2.) Offensive lines must be nerfed to make it harder to pancake.
3.) D-Line must be nerfed to fix this teleporting through double teaming at the snap.


#1 (offensive nerf in general)

Could you please explain where's the overpowered offense:

http://goallineblitz.com/game/league.pl?league_id=1&conference_id=2&playoffs=0

Cincinnati Shockers vs. Alpine Golfers 47-24 (#1 vs. #6)
Cleveland Buckeyes vs. Indianapolis Gurupies 10-75 (#15 vs. #3)
Richey Royals vs. ***Official*** Footballguys 10-78 (#13 vs. #2)
Washington Slashers vs. Northwest Arkansas Naturals 16-23 (#5 vs. #8)
Over The Rhine Red Dots vs. Columbus Woodys 24-20 (#6 vs. #10)
South Otto Fragile Porcelain Mice vs. Detroit Demon Lions 33-10 (#11 vs. #14)
Pittsburgh Steel vs. Washington Bullets 0-255 (CPU vs. #9)
New Jersey Blaze vs. Carolina Hammer 57-10 (#4 vs. #12)

Do we need more 3-7 or 0-3 games?

#2 (pancakes)
Agreed.

#3 (teleporting through double teams)
No question.

http://goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=676338
http://goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=587420
http://goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=676147
http://goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=659221
http://goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=672542
http://goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=675873
http://goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=591316
http://goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=675925

Just a small sample from Pro and AAA leagues. I would like to see scores tighter all the way down the chain, but I guess it's a loaded question as to how to fix it imo.

Originally posted by tdm13

http://goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=675925 - MEM vs. MM , 37-36


Minnesota scored one offensive TD in that game and held MEM down until a frantic 4th quarter rally. I don't really have a problem with a 37-36 game where both teams get around 325 - 350 yards.

The Cinci/Hobo game had way too high a score, but both offenses are really good and I don't really think either team would give up nearly as many points in a rematch.

There are plenty of competitive, somewhat defensive oriented games out there, but there is a big disparity between a lot of teams so those games are more the exception than the rule. When MEM for example plays the Wolfpack or HHW or Minnesota points are hard to come by for either team usually and always have been.

Offenses DON'T need a nerf. When 2 equally matched teams meet and have good gameplans, you see close, low-scoring (for GLB standards) games:

http://goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=587074
http://goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=587112
http://goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=587174
http://goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=587045
http://goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=617796

To nerf an entire side of the ball because some results aren't ideal is ridiculous. Fact of the matter is there's mismatches out there. League aren't completely balanced, and high scoring games occur. Also you can't adjust in-game once you go into a game with a gameplan. So if one team brings a bad gameplan, it's taken advantage of all game resulting in high scores at times. Don't punish offense just because you see some high scores...there's usually a reason behind it.

Goal Line Big 12.

Originally posted by lolMurp
Goal Line Big 12 > Goal Line Exploit.

I agree