Personally I think outside running has gotten "better" this season. But it probably has a large amount to do with inside running being pretty easy to chunk 3+ yards out of.
Forum > Goal Line Blitz > Lets say you could fix the sim at the pro level.
Homage
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Reaction to screens is a little overkill too.
Originally posted by bhall43
I just feel like lead pass was taken too literal for GLB. I just want it so that the WR doesn't break stride on a route. The speed up that leads to bad passes is kinda dumb in a game like this to me. All I wanted was when I passed over the top of some CB that my WR didn't stop for the ball at the point of reception.
Well I'm more referring to the fact that as soon as the QB decides to bring it back to throw, the WR instantly slows down and adjusts to an "underthrown" ball.
Originally posted by bhall43
I just feel like lead pass was taken too literal for GLB. I just want it so that the WR doesn't break stride on a route. The speed up that leads to bad passes is kinda dumb in a game like this to me. All I wanted was when I passed over the top of some CB that my WR didn't stop for the ball at the point of reception.
Well I'm more referring to the fact that as soon as the QB decides to bring it back to throw, the WR instantly slows down and adjusts to an "underthrown" ball.
hmm....
Limiting myself to changes rather than additions....
Make the four corners of offense work equally well all other things being considered.
Make the various archtypes equally valid, speed and possession and power receivers, same with backs etc.
Increase the effect of Tactics upon rolls.
Decrease the rates of morale change and therefore limit morale's extreme impact upon play.
Increase the effect of auto adjust to improve a coaches ability to control play.
Narrow the performance range from low to high on all skills and attributes to decrease performance gaps between uber players and not so uber ones.
Further Increment and Randomize Ticket sales to avoid the current trip wire of zero sales to all.
Limiting myself to changes rather than additions....
Make the four corners of offense work equally well all other things being considered.
Make the various archtypes equally valid, speed and possession and power receivers, same with backs etc.
Increase the effect of Tactics upon rolls.
Decrease the rates of morale change and therefore limit morale's extreme impact upon play.
Increase the effect of auto adjust to improve a coaches ability to control play.
Narrow the performance range from low to high on all skills and attributes to decrease performance gaps between uber players and not so uber ones.
Further Increment and Randomize Ticket sales to avoid the current trip wire of zero sales to all.
Edited by yello1 on Apr 30, 2012 22:41:02
bhall43
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Originally posted by Homage
Well I'm more referring to the fact that as soon as the QB decides to bring it back to throw, the WR instantly slows down and adjusts to an "underthrown" ball.
This is all I want
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=713120&pbp_id=3666071
No slow down time and the pass was in stride.
Well I'm more referring to the fact that as soon as the QB decides to bring it back to throw, the WR instantly slows down and adjusts to an "underthrown" ball.
This is all I want
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=713120&pbp_id=3666071
No slow down time and the pass was in stride.
IIAMLEGEND
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Originally posted by tpaterniti
The problem with outside rushes in my opinion are 1.) It is way too easy to stop inside runs with minimal players and 2.) passing is so bad. Basically the reason that outside running doesn't work is because DCs drop safeties down near the line of scrimmage. How can they get away with this? Because 3 D-linemen and 2 LBs inside can stop inside runs relatively well. If it took more to stop inside runs DCs would have to be more strategic about when to put safeties down near the line of scrimmage which I believe would open up the outside run game some more.
Originally posted by evileyez
wat?
which season are we talking about here?
The problem with outside rushes in my opinion are 1.) It is way too easy to stop inside runs with minimal players and 2.) passing is so bad. Basically the reason that outside running doesn't work is because DCs drop safeties down near the line of scrimmage. How can they get away with this? Because 3 D-linemen and 2 LBs inside can stop inside runs relatively well. If it took more to stop inside runs DCs would have to be more strategic about when to put safeties down near the line of scrimmage which I believe would open up the outside run game some more.
Originally posted by evileyez
wat?
which season are we talking about here?
Time Trial
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Make focus have more impact on outcome. When designing a play you currently have the option of designating whether it is going to stop the pass or the run:
Run
Pass
General
Inside Run
Outside Run
Outside Run Left
Outside Run Right
HB Run
FB Run
QB Run
Screen Pass
Screen Left
Screen Right
Short Pass
Medium Pass
Long Pass
TE Pass
HB Pass
FB Pass
These are currently used only for organization... but what if you could actually get a bonus for guessing correctly?
In your AI, most teams will select the defense that they call based on the score, down, tags, and yards to go. This will result in one or maybe two possible outputs, which might be plays or packages.
You could set the play up to default to whatever the package calls, and you can have the AI override the package.
The more accurately you try to predict the play that is called, the bigger the stat increase you will get; however, the more wrong you are, the bigger the stat decrease. It wouldn't take that much work: most people design a play or a package or make an AI call based on what they think the defense will actually do.
So lets say that the Offense calls a HB Slam.
If you told the defense to look for a long pass, you would be 100% wrong, and take the maximum penalty.
If you told the defense to look for a short pass, you would be 75% wrong, and take a large penalty (short call).
If you told the defense to look for a run, you would be 100% correct, but it is a general call and wouldn't give much of a boost.
If you told the defense to look for a pass, you would be 0% correct, but it is a general call and wouldn't give much of a penalty.
If you called for an outside run, you would receive neither a bonus or a penalty because you are looking for the run, but need to adjust for the inside call.
If you exactly called an inside rush, you would receive the maximum bonus because you were specific.
If you weren't sure, you could always leave it as general and not receive either a bonus or a penalty.
Again, this wouldn't be too much more work, especially since it lets you setup general calls, but if your scouting report comes in and shows that they ALWAYS call the same play in that situation, the OC gets punished for their lazy planning... or they might have lured you into a trap and you call inside rush and they throw the ball on screen or deep and you get burned.
1) It is a much better solution than the RPP because it involves a bit more of a chess match... and we all know that the RPP doesn't work. There are over 40 different 'inside rushes' now... rotating through four or five of them makes the RPP useless. RPP works on the play, this allows you to target the type of call, which is the real issue.
2) It opens up aspects of the game that, "aren't working". If the passing game isn't working, you switch to the rush. You trick a DC into overcompensating for the rush attack, and you throw the ball. In the current sim it still wouldn't do you any good because the defense can still blitz you or shut you down. But if the DC tried to be too specific, their D will take a penalty, which should open up the side that might not be working.
3) It makes the coordination more like real life. You don't design blitzes IRL to work every single time, you alternate blitzes to confuse the other side as to what you are really going to do. Real life football is great because of the athletic component, the execution component, and the mental component. In GLB, the builds, the randomness, and the AI do a decent job, but the sim can get in the way of the real chess match between OCs and DCs.
Again, you don't have to do any of this, you could have the option of leaving everything as general and not do any more scouting than you currently do, but if you know that the team you are playing has a tendency... think of this boost to attributes for making the right play call = to teams preparing and practicing before playing their next week.
Again, the mechanic is already built into the classification of the play in the DPC. You would just need to put a dropdown in the package and the AI in case you wanted to override the classification.
Run
Pass
General
Inside Run
Outside Run
Outside Run Left
Outside Run Right
HB Run
FB Run
QB Run
Screen Pass
Screen Left
Screen Right
Short Pass
Medium Pass
Long Pass
TE Pass
HB Pass
FB Pass
These are currently used only for organization... but what if you could actually get a bonus for guessing correctly?
In your AI, most teams will select the defense that they call based on the score, down, tags, and yards to go. This will result in one or maybe two possible outputs, which might be plays or packages.
You could set the play up to default to whatever the package calls, and you can have the AI override the package.
The more accurately you try to predict the play that is called, the bigger the stat increase you will get; however, the more wrong you are, the bigger the stat decrease. It wouldn't take that much work: most people design a play or a package or make an AI call based on what they think the defense will actually do.
So lets say that the Offense calls a HB Slam.
If you told the defense to look for a long pass, you would be 100% wrong, and take the maximum penalty.
If you told the defense to look for a short pass, you would be 75% wrong, and take a large penalty (short call).
If you told the defense to look for a run, you would be 100% correct, but it is a general call and wouldn't give much of a boost.
If you told the defense to look for a pass, you would be 0% correct, but it is a general call and wouldn't give much of a penalty.
If you called for an outside run, you would receive neither a bonus or a penalty because you are looking for the run, but need to adjust for the inside call.
If you exactly called an inside rush, you would receive the maximum bonus because you were specific.
If you weren't sure, you could always leave it as general and not receive either a bonus or a penalty.
Again, this wouldn't be too much more work, especially since it lets you setup general calls, but if your scouting report comes in and shows that they ALWAYS call the same play in that situation, the OC gets punished for their lazy planning... or they might have lured you into a trap and you call inside rush and they throw the ball on screen or deep and you get burned.
1) It is a much better solution than the RPP because it involves a bit more of a chess match... and we all know that the RPP doesn't work. There are over 40 different 'inside rushes' now... rotating through four or five of them makes the RPP useless. RPP works on the play, this allows you to target the type of call, which is the real issue.
2) It opens up aspects of the game that, "aren't working". If the passing game isn't working, you switch to the rush. You trick a DC into overcompensating for the rush attack, and you throw the ball. In the current sim it still wouldn't do you any good because the defense can still blitz you or shut you down. But if the DC tried to be too specific, their D will take a penalty, which should open up the side that might not be working.
3) It makes the coordination more like real life. You don't design blitzes IRL to work every single time, you alternate blitzes to confuse the other side as to what you are really going to do. Real life football is great because of the athletic component, the execution component, and the mental component. In GLB, the builds, the randomness, and the AI do a decent job, but the sim can get in the way of the real chess match between OCs and DCs.
Again, you don't have to do any of this, you could have the option of leaving everything as general and not do any more scouting than you currently do, but if you know that the team you are playing has a tendency... think of this boost to attributes for making the right play call = to teams preparing and practicing before playing their next week.
Again, the mechanic is already built into the classification of the play in the DPC. You would just need to put a dropdown in the package and the AI in case you wanted to override the classification.
Skanker irl
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A fix, brings a fix, brings another fix.
Should've taken the sim out of beta when it was halfway decent and left it and made improvements on the forums/website/replays only.
Should've taken the sim out of beta when it was halfway decent and left it and made improvements on the forums/website/replays only.
bug03
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Receivers and catching and running needs changed. Short passes where a rec can make something happen after the catch willmake things much more interesting.
Guppy, Inc
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make returners stop running smack into a tackler. its really frustrating to actually create the lane to run in, but the returner runs right at someone who is being blocked, who then makes the tackle.
either fix the fg/xp logic so that the result matches the replay, or get rid of the replays.
either fix the fg/xp logic so that the result matches the replay, or get rid of the replays.
jakobnielsen
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I think it is still the blocking code that needs to be more "clever"
this is just idiotic
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=2014484&pbp_id=3814781
even if dots dont recognize a blitzer before the play, they should at least make an attempt to adjust in play
I am sure everyone can find even worse examples
If Bort figures out how to make the O-line adjust better - then you can give back more freedom of movement in the DPC, which obv is more fun
even if that wont be allowed - you can at least remove the artificial slowing down of blitzers - which is too much of a bandaid
And finally - if there is reasonable blocking logic - OCs must stop whining when 6 rushers against 5 blitzers means someone gets a shot at the QB
this is just idiotic
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=2014484&pbp_id=3814781
even if dots dont recognize a blitzer before the play, they should at least make an attempt to adjust in play
I am sure everyone can find even worse examples
If Bort figures out how to make the O-line adjust better - then you can give back more freedom of movement in the DPC, which obv is more fun
even if that wont be allowed - you can at least remove the artificial slowing down of blitzers - which is too much of a bandaid
And finally - if there is reasonable blocking logic - OCs must stop whining when 6 rushers against 5 blitzers means someone gets a shot at the QB
Homage
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Originally posted by jakobnielsen
I think it is still the blocking code that needs to be more "clever"
this is just idiotic
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=2014484&pbp_id=3814781
even if dots dont recognize a blitzer before the play, they should at least make an attempt to adjust in play
eh, that happens IRL quite a bit tho, but we should've seen missed vision checks... or maybe your O-linemen aren't fast enough? Hard to tell but it's definitely not due to a vision check which it should be.
I think it is still the blocking code that needs to be more "clever"
this is just idiotic
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=2014484&pbp_id=3814781
even if dots dont recognize a blitzer before the play, they should at least make an attempt to adjust in play
eh, that happens IRL quite a bit tho, but we should've seen missed vision checks... or maybe your O-linemen aren't fast enough? Hard to tell but it's definitely not due to a vision check which it should be.
Edited by Homage on May 1, 2012 02:18:53
saintedix
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Originally posted by HATEMOBSTER
It's easier said than done, but generally if you let builds be successful at what they were created to do while still being vulnerable in other areas this game will improve itself. Someone else said that in another thread and I think it was about blitzing CBS.
The point I was trying to make in the other thread is that the differentiation in builds is getting very small, leading to cookie cutter "optimum" builds because the interactions in the sim don't require any sort of meaningful specialization.
There needs to be more of a rock/paper/scissors interaction between differently built players to make types of builds more meaningful in certain interactions. For example, a CB who is specialized in Swat Ball, Long Reach, 3rd Down Stopper, and Pass Deflect % should rarely give up catches in coverage, but should be more susceptible to failing to make cuts or keep up with receivers. On the other hand, a speed CB should stay with WR's well but give up catches in coverage more often.
The problem is that you have 160 speed WR's with 18 FS and CD who can still catch passes in double-coverage just as regularly as the guy with 120 speed and twice as much jumping, strength, and vision. Like I said above, there's no meaningful differentiation between specialized players and how they actually perform in certain situations. Individual players literally don't have strengths and weaknesses.
So what I would do bhall, is re-evaluate all of the SA's and VA's and give them all meaningful attribution to the actual sim, and even create more VA's to facilitate this differentiation. There are too many positions now in GLB where there are "required" VA's instead of specialized ones (i.e. if there's a single cover CB in WL that doesn't have 15 in Long Reach and 3rd Down Stopper, I'd be shocked). You should have to make tradeoffs or compromises to get your player to perform how you want him to. But damn it, he should perform the tasks you built him to perform and not be hamstrung by poor coding logic.
A guy with 0 in the Blitz SA and no Blitz VA's should suffer as a blitzer no matter how high his raw attributes are (this was the point I was getting at in the other thread). I don't give a damn that CB sacks are damn near impossible this season. I give a damn when I could get just as many sacks blitzing a pure cover CB as I can blitzing my CB built specifically for it.
That's just plain dumb, uninteresting, and frankly not much fun.
It's easier said than done, but generally if you let builds be successful at what they were created to do while still being vulnerable in other areas this game will improve itself. Someone else said that in another thread and I think it was about blitzing CBS.
The point I was trying to make in the other thread is that the differentiation in builds is getting very small, leading to cookie cutter "optimum" builds because the interactions in the sim don't require any sort of meaningful specialization.
There needs to be more of a rock/paper/scissors interaction between differently built players to make types of builds more meaningful in certain interactions. For example, a CB who is specialized in Swat Ball, Long Reach, 3rd Down Stopper, and Pass Deflect % should rarely give up catches in coverage, but should be more susceptible to failing to make cuts or keep up with receivers. On the other hand, a speed CB should stay with WR's well but give up catches in coverage more often.
The problem is that you have 160 speed WR's with 18 FS and CD who can still catch passes in double-coverage just as regularly as the guy with 120 speed and twice as much jumping, strength, and vision. Like I said above, there's no meaningful differentiation between specialized players and how they actually perform in certain situations. Individual players literally don't have strengths and weaknesses.
So what I would do bhall, is re-evaluate all of the SA's and VA's and give them all meaningful attribution to the actual sim, and even create more VA's to facilitate this differentiation. There are too many positions now in GLB where there are "required" VA's instead of specialized ones (i.e. if there's a single cover CB in WL that doesn't have 15 in Long Reach and 3rd Down Stopper, I'd be shocked). You should have to make tradeoffs or compromises to get your player to perform how you want him to. But damn it, he should perform the tasks you built him to perform and not be hamstrung by poor coding logic.
A guy with 0 in the Blitz SA and no Blitz VA's should suffer as a blitzer no matter how high his raw attributes are (this was the point I was getting at in the other thread). I don't give a damn that CB sacks are damn near impossible this season. I give a damn when I could get just as many sacks blitzing a pure cover CB as I can blitzing my CB built specifically for it.
That's just plain dumb, uninteresting, and frankly not much fun.
Edited by saintedix on May 1, 2012 04:11:53
jakobnielsen
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Originally posted by Homage
eh, that happens IRL quite a bit tho, but we should've seen missed vision checks... or maybe your O-linemen aren't fast enough? Hard to tell but it's definitely not due to a vision check which it should be.
Not on good teams it dont!
What you quite often see, is 2 man engaging a rusher, and a 3rd ceiling of the edge, then looking for the delayed blitz - and then engaging
C only has 75 speed, other 2 dots are above 80, all 90+ agility - is that low?
eh, that happens IRL quite a bit tho, but we should've seen missed vision checks... or maybe your O-linemen aren't fast enough? Hard to tell but it's definitely not due to a vision check which it should be.
Not on good teams it dont!
What you quite often see, is 2 man engaging a rusher, and a 3rd ceiling of the edge, then looking for the delayed blitz - and then engaging
C only has 75 speed, other 2 dots are above 80, all 90+ agility - is that low?
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