Warrior General Games

Originally posted by steellithium
It isn't the attribute speed that is penalized. It is running very fast without consideration of where the ball is going to be thrown. In other words the faster you run, you need more vision and catching to meet the ball at the right point.



Uh, yes, yes it is. You can spin it with rhetoric however you want, the fact is, it is a penalty.

If you have a level

60 WR and level 55 WR with identical builds, but the 60 has 25 more sp invested in speed, if that 60 is then required to have more vision and catching to compensate for that increase in speed that my friend is a penalty. The level 55 with the identical stats will now catch the ball better than the level 60 who has invested 25 more points in his build because his vision and catching are closer in line with his speed? Rule 1 of this game should be that no addition of an attribute causes you to have a negative effect on your build. At this point the level 55 guy becomes better than the level 60 for catching with the identical catching and catching related attributes. I call that a penalty.

Originally posted by Mob-6

Uh, yes, yes it is. You can spin it with rhetoric however you want, the fact is, it is a penalty.

If you have a level

60 WR and level 55 WR with identical builds, but the 60 has 25 more sp invested in speed, if that 60 is then required to have more vision and catching to compensate for that increase in speed that my friend is a penalty. The level 55 with the identical stats will now catch the ball better than the level 60 who has invested 25 more points in his build because his vision and catching are closer in line with his speed? Rule 1 of this game should be that no addition of an attribute causes you to have a negative effect on your build. At this point the level 55 guy becomes better than the level 60 for catching with the identical catching and catching related attributes. I call that a penalty.

You need the higher attributes not because you're faster. You need them while running faster, while at high speeds. Not for having a higher speed attribute.
The faster guy gets the benifit of BEING FASTER, of being more open, creating more seperation. But, at those speeds, there is a risk factor for catching it in stride.

Originally posted by Mob-6

Uh, yes, yes it is. You can spin it with rhetoric however you want, the fact is, it is a penalty.

If you have a level

60 WR and level 55 WR with identical builds, but the 60 has 25 more sp invested in speed, if that 60 is then required to have more vision and catching to compensate for that increase in speed that my friend is a penalty. The level 55 with the identical stats will now catch the ball better than the level 60 who has invested 25 more points in his build because his vision and catching are closer in line with his speed? Rule 1 of this game should be that no addition of an attribute causes you to have a negative effect on your build. At this point the level 55 guy becomes better than the level 60 for catching with the identical catching and catching related attributes. I call that a penalty.

Think about this logically. Your level 55 receiver is probably built for speed too. Now he is starting to enter his prime. Do you want him to be a better receiver, or do you want him to be a faster receiver?

Vision is field awareness. It helps the player decide which path to chose. The faster your player moves, the more important it is he makes good decisions. A misread puts you further out of position the faster you are moving.

The problem comes out of misunderstanding cap building. It is the fastest way to get a stat to an elite level. Still your player is only elite in one aspect of the position requirements. To make the player perform consistently, they need to be good at each requirement of their position. Instead of rounding out the build, they push the elite stat further. Instead of making a level 60 player, they are making a level 30 player with level 67 speed or strength or whatever.

I think what we really need to know is what "vision" means. Is it actually what you can see? Is it awareness? Is it football knowledge? What is it? Personally, I think it's all three. If that's the case, wouldn't it make it one of the most important attributes there is? If, like I've seen with linemen, it prevent false starts, wouldn't it be all three? I have no idea?

Originally posted by chili74
I think what we really need to know is what "vision" means. Is it actually what you can see? Is it awareness? Is it football knowledge? What is it? Personally, I think it's all three. If that's the case, wouldn't it make it one of the most important attributes there is? If, like I've seen with linemen, it prevent false starts, wouldn't it be all three? I have no idea?

A defender with higher vision takes better angles. Once I saw that, I pretty much realized it is the decision making capability of the player.

Keep in mind that for CBs and WRs,

-Vision determines how quickly they see the ball and break out of their route/coverage to adjust to it and attempt to make the catch
-Speed and Agility determine how well they can get in position to make the catch
-Jumping and Catching determine how well CBs can intercept/deflect passes and how well WRs can actually bring them down.

So I would say catching in stride relies mostly on Vision, Speed, and Agility from the WRs perspective. Of course the better the pass quality, the less the WR has to adjust to it.

Originally posted by steellithium
A defender with higher vision takes better angles. Once I saw that, I pretty much realized it is the decision making capability of the player.

So that being said, would a higher vision receiver run a better route, thus getting open easier?

Originally posted by chili74
So that being said, would a higher vision receiver run a better route, thus getting open easier?

Within the limit of their speed and agility, yes. I'm not saying everything needs to be equal, but ignoring vision isn't good. Especially when a CB has 40 more vision. The WR may be faster, but the CB uses his speed more efficiently.

Originally posted by steellithium
Within the limit of their speed and agility, yes. I'm not saying everything needs to be equal, but ignoring vision isn't good. Especially when a CB has 40 more vision. The WR may be faster, but the CB uses his speed more efficiently.

Not to mention corners often have 5 in a special that lowers WR vision.

Originally posted by steellithium
Within the limit of their speed and agility, yes. I'm not saying everything needs to be equal, but ignoring vision isn't good. Especially when a CB has 40 more vision. The WR may be faster, but the CB uses his speed more efficiently.

Well CB is more of an a reactionary position, agility is much more important. I agree with what your saying.

In my opinion vision is huge for offensive skill players, good info!!

Originally posted by tpaterniti
Keep in mind that for CBs and WRs,

-Vision determines how quickly they see the ball and break out of their route/coverage to adjust to it and attempt to make the catch
-Speed and Agility determine how well they can get in position to make the catch
-Jumping and Catching determine how well CBs can intercept/deflect passes and how well WRs can actually bring them down.

So I would say catching in stride relies mostly on Vision, Speed, and Agility from the WRs perspective. Of course the better the pass quality, the less the WR has to adjust to it.

So shouldn't Ball Hawk be the end all be all for the speed WR? If you notice is right when it is coming in, that extra vision boost should be huge for catching in stride?

Originally posted by Mob-6
Originally posted by tpaterniti

Keep in mind that for CBs and WRs,

-Vision determines how quickly they see the ball and break out of their route/coverage to adjust to it and attempt to make the catch
-Speed and Agility determine how well they can get in position to make the catch
-Jumping and Catching determine how well CBs can intercept/deflect passes and how well WRs can actually bring them down.

So I would say catching in stride relies mostly on Vision, Speed, and Agility from the WRs perspective. Of course the better the pass quality, the less the WR has to adjust to it.

So shouldn't Ball Hawk be the end all be all for the speed WR? If you notice is right when it is coming in, that extra vision boost should be huge for catching in stride?

In theory yes, in practice no.

Originally posted by merenoise

Originally posted by Mob-6
So shouldn't Ball Hawk be the end all be all for the speed WR? If you notice is right when it is coming in, that extra vision boost should be huge for catching in stride?
In theory yes, in practice no.

Then again, how many speedster WRs have enough vision to really get a significant boost from Ball Hawk for us to tell?

Originally posted by Blamo
Then again, how many speedster WRs have enough vision to really get a significant boost from Ball Hawk for us to tell?

Ball hawk sucks for receivers imo...