Warrior General Games

Originally posted by jdbolick
Originally posted by headsigh

Like stopping completely to a different direction?
Except he didn't even seem to stop. It was crazy because he just seemed to almost bounce off the defender and react with great speed back to the middle. Pretty awesome, actually, I just wish I had saved the link.



Also, I'd like to reiterate my suggestion that Deathblade have his own team of socially inept problem solvers to look at various issues in the sim. Not only would it get things done, but it could be made into its own TV show.

If the BT pushes him in the opposite direction this seems to occur..it happens enough for me to notice it 10+ times this season.

Originally posted by Bukowski
Originally posted by Bort

Originally posted by Bukowski


On Spins, bort should make breaking the tackle easier than normal, as long as Spin activates. I think that would accomplish a lot.

Perhaps only on elusive style running though. Do that with power guys and now they have an OP ability.

Right, there you go. Since it is an Elusive SA, after all.

Power Backs already activate Spin more, because of what you need to fire it successfully.

It could be like a bonus, kind of like Slippery, where you need to be at 50 Elusive, or whatever.

You need a ton of Agility to Spin...

Originally posted by David Stern
Originally posted by Bort

I've been thinking about trying to play with that aspect for super elusive and see if it could work with some tweaks. Big cutbacks and the ability to bounce outside more quickly would be awesome IMO. You can do some of it with high enough agility currently, but not to the level I'd like to see someday.




Here is a big issue which people are sorta hinting at but not really saying it the way I want it said.

100 agility rb's aren't able to make fakes without sa's. Think about that.. If you are a super elusive hb you can't even compete without sa's. I mean look at it from the other side. Lb'ers have the ability to tackle without sa's... Imagine not being able to tackle without having 5 in an sa. But a hb can't make a fake, or do anything without investing in sa's. I understand it needs to be balanced. But super high agility/vision/carry needs to give better boosts to the fakes without sa's. Otherwise going forward every rb in the game is going to be 100 speed/str 77 carry 40% break tackle. 40 vision 73 agility. That is it. Pretty simple. I know this is not working as intended.. (god I hope not)



I really think the role of agility needs to be buffed, as does vision for offensive players. As it is now, anyone going over 55 vision, essentially is a sucker. When players have high vision they should be able to get bonuses to certain things, instead of just a pass/fail vision check.


sadly I agree with Stern

Originally posted by Bort
Perhaps only on elusive style running though. Do that with power guys and now they have an OP ability.

that would be fair....i like this idea, and i don't even have spin for any of my RBs....

Originally posted by Bort
Originally posted by Bukowski

On Spins, bort should make breaking the tackle easier than normal, as long as Spin activates. I think that would accomplish a lot.

Perhaps only on elusive style running though. Do that with power guys and now they have an OP ability.


As it is, elusive style is fairly ineffective. Pumping up Spin ability when running elusive could make for some entertaining plays at least...I like that idea a lot.

It would actually be a bit like Barry Sanders...he would spend 15 seconds running around the backfield shaking defenders, but might actually break free at some point.

I think the game could use a little excitement like that, as long as it was not too OPed.

Originally posted by DL24
Originally posted by Bukowski

Originally posted by Bort


Originally posted by Bukowski



On Spins, bort should make breaking the tackle easier than normal, as long as Spin activates. I think that would accomplish a lot.

Perhaps only on elusive style running though. Do that with power guys and now they have an OP ability.

Right, there you go. Since it is an Elusive SA, after all.

Power Backs already activate Spin more, because of what you need to fire it successfully.

It could be like a bonus, kind of like Slippery, where you need to be at 50 Elusive, or whatever.

You need a ton of Agility to Spin...

I know very well what you need.

But as it is now, power backs do it much easier than elusive backs, because Agility isn't all you need.

Originally posted by DL24
Yeah, actually the way fakes are going now isn't all too bad, the HB reaction should just be altered.

Now that I think of it, as taut said, a reduction to skills would be pretty unstoppable.

Fakes...while they may not be gamebreaking, they use a really terrible mechanic, tbh.

Originally posted by jdbolick
The one thing we need to be careful about is that elusives are generally very speedy, so giving them too much of an advantage means instant touchdowns instead of just another 5 yards gained.

+1

It's not like they never gain yards currently.

Originally posted by Deathblade
Originally posted by DL24

Yeah, actually the way fakes are going now isn't all too bad, the HB reaction should just be altered.

Now that I think of it, as taut said, a reduction to skills would be pretty unstoppable.

Fakes...while they may not be gamebreaking, they use a really terrible mechanic, tbh.

Right.

And it would only hurt that one defender that was faked, it wouldn't kill the entire defense.

Originally posted by DL24
Originally posted by Bort

Originally posted by Bukowski


So is that something we could look into?

Yah, and easy too. Add a "minus balance" line to fakeouts. Instant tackle penalty.

DL's suggestion on avoiding faked players is probably good too.

I've been spending so much time on passing and blocking, I haven't really had much time or reason to get into rushing.

Yeah, actually the way fakes are going now isn't all too bad, the HB reaction should just be altered.

Now that I think of it, as taut said, a reduction to skills would be pretty unstoppable.

How so? They would break a tackle that they should break. If a combo RB has faked a guy, he should by all means break the tackle.

Originally posted by Bort
Originally posted by jdbolick

The one thing we need to be careful about is that elusives are generally very speedy, so giving them too much of an advantage means instant touchdowns instead of just another 5 yards gained.

+1

It's not like they never gain yards currently.

Right, I don't think we're saying that. Users are just tired of their backs faking a defender and running right into them.

Originally posted by David Stern
Here is a big issue which people are sorta hinting at but not really saying it the way I want it said.

100 agility rb's aren't able to make fakes without sa's. Think about that.. If you are a super elusive hb you can't even compete without sa's. I mean look at it from the other side. Lb'ers have the ability to tackle without sa's... Imagine not being able to tackle without having 5 in an sa. But a hb can't make a fake, or do anything without investing in sa's. I understand it needs to be balanced. But super high agility/vision/carry needs to give better boosts to the fakes without sa's. Otherwise going forward every rb in the game is going to be 100 speed/str 77 carry 40% break tackle. 40 vision 73 agility. That is it. Pretty simple. I know this is not working as intended.. (god I hope not)



I really think the role of agility needs to be buffed, as does vision for offensive players. As it is now, anyone going over 55 vision, essentially is a sucker. When players have high vision they should be able to get bonuses to certain things, instead of just a pass/fail vision check.


man....i could not agree more.

Originally posted by David Stern
Here is a big issue which people are sorta hinting at but not really saying it the way I want it said. 100 agility rb's aren't able to make fakes without sa's. Think about that.. If you are a super elusive hb you can't even compete without sa's. I mean look at it from the other side. Lb'ers have the ability to tackle without sa's... Imagine not being able to tackle without having 5 in an sa. But a hb can't make a fake, or do anything without investing in sa's.
A HB can break tackles without investing in SAs, so your analogy fails. Fakes are a specialized skill. I really think your concern about agility is better addressed simply by the better pathing that Deathblade mentioned. If HBs get better about moving to keep distance from defenders while still moving upfield, then agility has great value in making cuts without losing much speed.

Originally posted by Bort
Originally posted by jdbolick

The one thing we need to be careful about is that elusives are generally very speedy, so giving them too much of an advantage means instant touchdowns instead of just another 5 yards gained.

+1

It's not like they never gain yards currently.

But we're talking about so that one defender has a hard time making the tackle, immediately after being faked.

We're not talking about penalizing the entire defense.

But if the RB has already faked that defender, it is only fair that he has a much harder time making the tackle.

Originally posted by Bort
Originally posted by jdbolick

The one thing we need to be careful about is that elusives are generally very speedy, so giving them too much of an advantage means instant touchdowns instead of just another 5 yards gained.

+1

It's not like they never gain yards currently.


It should however be noted that many of the best "elusives" don't use elusive running style.